Why Be Groovy Man?

Re: Why Be Groovy Man?

mikew

>Yeah, Tommy, you suck!

The thing about corrugated soles is sorta a controversy. I'm sure you'll get good, scientific responses as to why C versions have the exact same friction as a smooth sole.

But again, the really important thing here is, you suck....

Take care, Mike

you did pretty darn good!

Could be...

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond, CA

>Less friction, but I can't tell the difference between regular planes and "C's". One thing forsure, "C's" are easier to flatten.

$35.00 Doesn't seem like a bad deal to me. Ya should have gotten them both so the don't get lonely...

Re: Why Be Groovy Man?

Dave Thompson

>Hi Tom, Not sure what the thinking was at the time. Here are some theories:

• Less friction - I don't believe the physics back this up.
  
  
• Less suction on pick up - Theoretically, the air gap caused from lifting the plane is less because air can enter through the gaps. I've never noticed a difference myself.
  
  
• While I've never heard anyone mention this, the advanatge I see is in grinding the surface flat. There is less material to remove to make the sole dead flat.
  
  
• It's a secret marketing ploy that gives people an excuse to buy two of the same thing.
  
  

Personally, I don't care either way for a corrugated smoother. I don't really like it on my jointer because I think the corrugations interfere with edge jointing, i.e. keeping the jointer perpendicular to the side.

enjoy,

Dave

friction and surface area

Ryan Stagg - Cincinnati

>It's a bit more complex than this simple statement, but for the purpose of what we're discussing, friction is independent of surface area for inelastic materials. (that last bit saves me from answering questions about why wider car tires are better for sports cars)

For example, given a sled-foot and a four-foot table of the same weight and sitting on the same surface, the four small feet and the two sled feet will experience about the same force of friction.

So as Dave said, no, physics does not support a friction-advantage for corrugated planes. The suction issue might have merit, but I suspect it was just a gimmick. Anyone have old Stanley marketing materials that mention it?

Re: friction and surface area

Tom Scott

>True. Frictional force is the product of the friction coeficient (which is constant whether corrugated or not) and the normal force. So, if you are puhing down with the same force, the frictional force is the same for both a corrugated or flat-soled plane. It is not related to pressue, which would be higher with a "C" plane since there is less surface area.

Tom

Re: friction and surface area

Tony - Memphis

>Yeah, and even though I'm an ME, I still have to remind myself of that fact (friction not being a function of area). My old boss is a brake engineer, so he was sensitive to such things. Now, heat dissipation is a different issue...

Would be interesting to know why they produced these things. I know from working at a race car part company that many things are marketed that technically defy physics and engineering principles! We marketed "patented" products with pataents that had absolutely nothing to do with functionality. Looked good in the adds though.

Tony

Tracking gimmick?

Thomas Skaggs, Foothills of Mount Level

>Perhaps the illusion that the sole would track straighter as a selling point? Perhaps a silly guess but who knows?

Tommy

Softwoods

Denis Ch�nard, Orl�ans, Ont.

>I recall reading that the corrugations were for planing softwoods. While friction wouldn't change based on contact surface area, wood with a high resin contents would stick more to a plain sole compared to a corrugated one.

This is a different issue than friction, as I understand it.

DC

Because

jim reed @ tallahassee

>Corrugated planes just look cooler! On a more serious note, a corrugated sole is easier to flaten because there is less metal to remove. The corrugations also hold wax. If you like to wax your soles corrugated is the only way to fly.

I'm with you on the jointer

Neal in San Jose

>I had a Stanley 608C that I never cared for. I even upgraded to a Hock blade, but the corrugations were always catching on an edge when trying to joint boards. Well, it outweighed me, too. I finally sold it to someone who just had to have it.

I have two Ohio Tool 4 1/2 planes, one of which is a C, and I can't tell any difference in use of these planes. They aren't used on edges, so catching a corrugation isn't a problem.

Re: Because, jim says, just because

Tom in Tipp

>There may be good reasons to corrugate the sole, but the above reason is reason enough! (-:

Re: Because

C.R. Miller

>I remember reading a web board back in December 1898 between these new "grooved planes" and the "smooth soles". Then the transitional mob joined in, but they were soon chased down by the "woodies" and it was all chaos from there on!

Two words - sales gimmick!

Interesting...

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond, CA

>I've heard about this happening but have never experienced it myself.

But, but...

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond, CA

>I corragate all my woodies. Makes 'em easier to flatten!

Scott looking forward to making NO. 35C ;^)

Re: Because

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>Anybody ever seen a bevel up plane with a corrugated sole?

It's pretty easy to hide 'em by filling 'em in with liquid solder.

Re: Because, jim says, just because

Paul Erickson

>Tom,

Any chance of seeing a picture of the rest of your tool rack?

cheers, Paul

Bingo

Robin Corell

>

Ditto but not as fancy

Bill Houghton, IT IS Spring in Sebastopol, CA

>My old Craftsman No. 6 is corrugated, and I've had the "catch" problem a few times. Always takes me back to my motorcycling days, hitting those rain grooves, railroad tracks, @#$@%#$^ Midwestern steel eggcrate bridges, etc. - the sense that I'm not really in control. Skewing when planing edges helps a lot, but then I lose some of the value of the long plane.

TOM - WOW ! ! !

Steve Mackay

>

Even worse...

Dan Donaldson

>Is crossing one of those eggcrate bridges in a good rainstorm with a cross wind.

OT - mo'cycles in the Midwest

Bill Houghton, IT IS Spring in Sebastopol, CA

>I rode the bike all year, and my first time across a steel bridge is right up there in terror with the worst of the winter episodes, the time I locked up my front wheel at a stoplight during rush hour.

You missed one Dave

Raymond in Trenton, NJ

>

Corrugation Theory

Deirdre Saoirse Moen

>My current theory is that they were put there as the secret rust trap. After all, that's where the biggest chunk o' rust seems to wind up....

Ha!

Dave Thompson

>