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Craftsman 12" Bandsaw – Fully Rebuilt + Turning Blanks

Non-anglophile plane sources?

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Non-anglophile plane sources?

#1

Non-anglophile plane sources?

Dave Thompson

>I've been curious for quite some time if there are plane manufacturers around the world that don't get as much visibility in English speaking forumns. E-bay and on-line discussion groups that I follow are are primarily focused on American, Brittish, sometimes Australian, Indian, German, and Japanese planes.

I once saw a #1 size iron plane that was Russian, though I know little about who made it, nor have I seen anything else from them.

Italy, France, Spain, what do they use? Records, ECE, Kuntz and Stanley? or woodies? Reading Marc's post, I gather LN's are available in Luxembourg. What does Luxembourg have in the flea markets?

I hopped on the French e-bay portal, and navigated my way to hand planes. I didn't see alot of handplanes, and the iron ones I did see where nothing really unusual. Figured there might be some more popular French auction site unknown to me.

My motivation initially was looking for another source for unusual planes in other markets, e.g. perhaps something like a Sargent ladybug plane or something just as oddly attractive and functional. I was curious about Italy given little factoids like, they're a major manufacturer of wood power tools, and according to one of my wood suppliers, they are one of the largest importers of black walnut logs.... implications that there may alot of woodworking. Are they like the rest of world, Stanley, with more emphasis on Record and ECE or do they have their own local mfg and market.

Any insight, or are there really no not-well-known markets?

Thanks for entertaining my curiosity,

Dave

Re: Non-anglophile plane sources?

#2

Eeks, did I say American? I meant North American

Dave Thompson

>

Re: Non-anglophile plane sources?

#3

Re: Non-anglophile plane sources?

Thomas Skaggs, Foothills of Mount Level

>Dave,

I have a rare Tibetan #4 given to me by the Dali Lama. It never loses its edge....some sort of mystical thing. I'm only allowed to use it when insense is burning in my shop. Come over sometime and I'll show it to you. But come prepared to chant. ;-)

Tom

Re: Non-anglophile plane sources?

#4

LOL!

Denis Ch�nard, Orl�ans, Ont.

>Is that THE Salvatore Dali Lama? I thought he made only molten planes...

DC

Re: Non-anglophile plane sources?

#5

French plane makers

Frank D. in Montreal

>Hi Dave,

I know a little about Franch plane makers, really not that much other than owning a few French planes and having talked to a few people about them. As with most of continental Europe, wooden planes have always been favored over metal ones. That's why to my knowledge there haven't been any metal plane makers in France, even though they certainly have had the capacity to make them. The best example is Peugeot, the Franch car maker (they make all kinds of machinery) who has been the biggest producer of French wooden planes. National trade unions and guilds, as well as tradition which has always been much stronger (and older) than in North America, has contributed to the nationalization of tool making; each European country seems to have its own manufacturers and styles. The French still make wooden planes. On the pic below of a few French planes that I have, most of them are not very old, dating from around the '60s.

Other than Peugeot the biggest French plane maker is Goldenberg. Smaller makers include Coulaux and H Carrette, but there are tons of planes that are unmarked that come from small makers.

Re: Non-anglophile plane sources?

#6

One more

Frank D. in Montreal

>Unfortunately not mine. A nice French shooting plane.


img

Re: Non-anglophile plane sources?

#8

COOL design!

Bill Houghton, Sebastopol, CA

>I might just print this pic for possible future use.

Re: Non-anglophile plane sources?

#10

Re: More details

Wiley Horne

>Frank,

That's a beautiful miter jack shown in the thread also. Are you saying that Peugeot and Goldenberg are still making planes to this day? If so, who sells them? Canadian source?

Wiley

Re: Non-anglophile plane sources?

#11

Re: Non-anglophile plane sources?

Todd Hughes

>I see a good many Europeon planes which are coming out of Eastern Europe I think.For the last few years at least there are being LOTS of "antiques" being imported from these parts of the world coming over in large containers.Wood tubs,bowls, painted furniture, copper , water cans, etc in with them they pack tools as well.Very easy to spot as they just have a look about them, most are very primitive and look 200 years old though I think most are not all that old. I just don't think things changed to much over there, have seen axes that were arc welded but other wise a dead copy of one made in 1700. Most of these planes are rather rough but even when in passiable shape are to my eyes ugly and made cheap. I haven't bought many, not what I want for myself and I think worth very minimal to resell [who would want them?]. Have seen more then a few in Antique shops with amusing tags saying "From a Cabinet Makers Shop in Lancaster Pa." or some other nonsence.

To a lesser extent have seen some from I think Idoneasia or some place in Asia, again very old looking but not, lots of these interestingly have modern [post WWII] Stanley blades in them and look to have been built around them.

From my experance, while maybe some exceptions, on the whole planes from these parts of the world are of pretty low quality when compared to US and English made tools. I always sort of get the impression they were made good enough to just get by ......Todd

Re: Non-anglophile plane sources?

#12

Re: French plane makers. Peugeut pull scrub *PICS*

Dave Thompson

>Fascinating. Thanks for the info and photos Frank. That expains alot. I like that chute board plane. Nice to see some interesting and different designs.

After reading your note, I did a little more looking around, and found this interesting Peugeut plane, which I'm guessing from the photos is a wooden pull scrub plane.


Thanks for taking the time,

Dave

Re: Non-anglophile plane sources?

#13

Re: Non-anglophile plane sources?

Dave Thompson

>Ha! I'm trying to picture you sitting cross legged on your new walnut bench meditating on becoming one with the wood prior to taking on that curly maple.... Guess I'll have to see it. ;-)

Re: Non-anglophile plane sources?

#14

Re: More details

Frank D. in Montreal

>Hi Wiley,

Hope I didn't get you too excited, but the big plane makers don't seem to be making planes anymore, although I know Peugeot is still making other WW tools and blades. The new woodies I've seen have been in hardware stores, no-name planes that aren't very noteworthy. I just read that, ironically, Goldenberg was bought out by none other than Stanley (UK) around 1990.

As I said though, there's a lot I don't know about plane making in France, past or present. I'll be over there this summer again and I'll definitely be trying to find out more.

Re: Non-anglophile plane sources?

#15

Re: French plane makers. Peugeut pull scrub *PICS*

Frank D. in Montreal

>Wow,

I've never seen one like that. I've seen European planes with handles like that one which dated from the 16th to the 18th century, but they were all push planes. This may be a plane for a particular trade. I once saw a mason plane with 8 blades! Now that's tough planing.

Here's one with a similar handle, looks like a long rabbet plane. I've actually asked the owner to tell me a little more about it.


img

Re: Non-anglophile plane sources?

#16

Re: note the skewed mouth :-)

paul womack

>

Re: Non-anglophile plane sources?

#17

Re: French plane makers

Wolfgang Jordan

>There is a list of French planemakers on my website, along with a few other European makers:

http://www.holzwerken.de/museum/hersteller/europaeisch.phtml

Like in Germany wooden planes prevail in France, but there is at least one French maker of iron planes:

http://www.fischer-darex.com/

Other plane manufacturers (I know of) still existing in Europe are:

ECE (Primus), Ulmia and Kunz in Germany, Segerink in the Netherlands, Schachermayer (Weiss) in Austria, Gropp and Rali in Switzerland.

Unfortunately I don't know anything about Greece, Italy, Spain, Scandinavia or Eastern Europe. And I have excluded England from my view, because it is already covered by more knowledgeable people.

Wolfgang

Re: Non-anglophile plane sources?

#20

Re: French plane makers

Frank D. in Montreal

>Thanks Wolfgang,

Your site is very interesting. I took a look at some Darex planes last night. Unfortunately they seem to be cheap copies of Stanley planes; most stores selling them also sell Stanley versions of the same planes at slightly higher prices. I also learned that Goldenberg made some metal planes but they don't seem to be highly sought after either.

Re: Non-anglophile plane sources?

#21

Yes, and thought of you when I saw it.... ;-)

Dave Thompson

>

Re: Non-anglophile plane sources?

#22

Re: note the skewed mouth :-)

Frank D.

>Oh, you meant on the plane! ;)

Re: Non-anglophile plane sources?

#23

Chris Scholz

Re: Non-anglophile plane sources?

Chris Scholz

>A few hand tools currently in use in Chinese

Planes:

http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3454

http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3751

http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3755

http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3756

Framesaws:

http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3715

http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3581

http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=3591

Re: Non-anglophile plane sources?

#24

Re: Non-anglophile plane sources?

Marc in Luxembourg

>Dave,

Luxembourg has not much planes to sell on flea markets. They are rare and not cheap. Amongst them you find easiest molding planes.

There was no official planemaker as far as I know. Current use here were french and I think a little bit less german brands. This has changed nowadays as german brands are more available. Common use are woodies, metal planes above all Stanleys were well known but harder to find. I saw once a Goldenberg metal plane, could be a #5 type, had an awful plastic translucent tote. You can get here everything you want, i.e. what you find on the web. I don't know any specialized tool store here in Luxembourg that sells better planes than the lower price range of ECE. So far I bought all my LNs from the shop in Warren and they got them well over the pond.

I have a bunch of old woodies, above all molding planes, two fore planes, T&G matched pairs and combined. They are most nameless, except these: ALBUM; LeGrand DUVIVIER; Joh. Wei� u. Sohn; Heiner M�ller. Nothing uncommon on design. On the pic you see them uncleaned, as I got them.

Why this scarcity on planes? I don't know. Perhaps a little bit the mentality. I spoke to a neighbor this afternoon and he said: If you don't have a machine (i.e. planer or jointer) you can do nothing.

Regards, Marc


img

Re: Non-anglophile plane sources?

#25

As long as you`re asking...

Bob Hackett(Mainely,Bob)

>How about more info on that hold-down just below the plane.It appears to be a lever operated model.

MB

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