>As I dive more into hand tools I would like to try out some japanse planes. I have always been backwards so maybe I will like them better. I know I like my japanese saw a lot.
the question is matter of quality. from my price perspective the quality of Ln and LV are all I will need at this time.
I'm willing to pay the 80 bucks for a LN block plane vs 20 bucks for a Big Box version. I enjoy using tools not fixing them.
my question is what the Japanese version of LV and LN?
>Lee Valley used to sell regular Japanese planes. I bought one nearly thirty years ago, or at least the blade, all 10 bucks worth of it, and I am still using it, the blade is superb. I have bought a variety of other cheapish ones and they have proved great also. Never bought a Japanese plane blade that wasn't head and shoulders above the brands you mentioned.
I would say you can buy anything Japan woodworker has for sale with complete confidence. There are other good supliers out there, but JW has a wider range of prices than many of the places that sell only heritage grade tools. Hida, or Hirade are good if you are going to go straight to a professional tool to start with. And why not, there isn't any downside to it, they are all the same to set up and use.
The cheaper brands normaly have a sub-blade made of stamped metal. You can get a white or blue steel blade with a laminated SB for around 100. I always like the widest blade I can get, though my hands are not extra large. If your hands are small stick to the 65mm and under stuff. Also if you use a guide to sharpen, then some of the blades are too wide for the guides.
I have had good experiences buying planes from Misugi Designs, Hida, and Japanesetools.com (Hiraide).
The Mosaku planes from Hiraide are excellent, but they are $500+ last I looked.
Two LV/LN quality, as far as dollar cost goes, are the Ishida-bladed planes, with dais by Inamoto. Hida and Misugi sell these; Hida with white steel blades (Ishihisa) and Misugi with blue steel (Gomi brand). I think the Gomi w/blue steel at $185 is very good value, and probably what you are after. The plane comes bedded at 45, which is slightly higher angle than is usual in Japanese planes, and IMO is a good angle to start out with.
I had occasion to use an Ishida 'Meimon' plane recently, from Misugi Designs, and it was great, but then it was prepared by a true expert. This plane is $320, and is also very good value as these planes run.
Couple of things to understand about Japanese planes. First, when you say "LV/LN quality", what that means to many people is that the plane works out of the box. In comparison, I haven't seen a Japanese plane that didn't require some pencil-marking-and-scraping-of-the-bed to get the final fit of the blade to the dai. The expectation in the Japanese culture is that the user deserves the right to do that, plus the dai probably needs to settle down in the user's climate before being fettled. So if you want 'works out of the box', don't buy a Japanese plane, even an expensive one.
Second, you have to be very good indeed with a Japanese plane to plane figured hardwood without tearout--I'm talking about the whole board, not a test patch on a board. We are talking (usually) about a plane which is bedded at less than 45 degrees, and whose mouth is not particularly tight. So it's not like you have the advantages of a high angle and a 3 thou mouth. The way it is done by the experts is blazingly sharp blade, nicely fettled at the edges; perfect sole setup; and if a chipbreaker is used, it has to be just right also.
In short, the rewards are great with Japanese planes--for example the surface depth is fantastic when they're right--but it takes a lot of commitment by the user, and works-out-of-the-box is the very opposite of what they're about.
I have a question which might interest Joe too. I've noticed that Japan Woodworker offers dais with a 50� bed. Would you recommend these? Logic has it that they would make planing harwoods easier, but I don't know much about Japanese blades.
>There is a tradition in Japanese planes of having a whole slew of bedding angles. I have a list that Robert Major put out with angles relative to given woods. The downside is that the the higher the blade angle goes the harder it is to fit. Or at least so I have found. I have one very high angle plane (not a scraper) and it's pretty odd looking with the hollow well out of the dai, it should probably have had a thicker block.
My highest angle Japanese plane is 46 degrees, so can't say anything about 50 from experience. If it's an Inomoto dai, I would say it's a good risk, with the caveat of what Thom said about it's inherently more difficult to fit a high angle blade. If it's not Inomoto....?
>certainly some food for thought. I ordered a Japan woodworker catalog. I may start out with one and see if I like them. I'm not afraid to true up a sole, so that is not deal breaker.
thanks for the money sucking linkings. There are some very nice looking planes. I will have to spend a few hours drooling over which one to get first!
do you like any of these in particular?
the Tiwaneese planes are very nice looking. it not that I hate my rotuer but the only time I will get to play in the shop is usally 9 or so at night. the neighbors won't lynch me if I use hand tools.
I will save the power tools for mass cutting on the weekend and final fit during the week. that way I may actually finish a project!
>I think that JWW's Fujihisa plane which sells for about $130 these days is pretty decent, and would make an good "first" japanese plane. I bought a couple of the 60mm blades by themselves (for dai making practice) and I am pretty happy with the blades. They're nothing fancy but I haven't seen anything nicer in the $100 price range. A 60mm or smaller plane is much easier to learn on than a 70mm unless you have big hands and very good sharpening skills to begin with.
You might want to start with a 48-54mm plane, if you can find a good one. Skip JWW's. Check out the block planes at www.hidatool.com. They have several in this size range.
Finally if you can spring for $185 - then go for the Gomi brand that Kayoko carries at Misugi Design (www.misugidesigns.com). You are getting a nicer blade from a well respected maker (Ishida-san) and a better made dai. Well worth the extra $50 or so over the planes described above. Kayoko may also have some smaller planes in stock that aren't on her web site.
Remember that japanese planes essentially come in "kit" form, and you need to fine tune the dai to fit the blade, and also tune the mouth and sole before use. Enjoy!
>Are those blades tapered or just held in by the subblade. The later doesn't do it for me. Some of the taiwanese planes are really good though. Like the ones with the wing handles. I wish LV had a few more of the classic chinese planes.
>Truing up the sole is a five minute job, and not technically difficult. Most stuff on a Japanese plane is easy to do as long as you don't push on hastily. There are a few ways specialty tools for tunnign these planes, but it is just removing wood, and everything tha tnormally works works on these planes. I once set the wave pattern with a router table.