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Finishing question

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Finishing question

#1

Finishing question

Tony Zaffuto

>Good morning all,

I have a "heritage" cherry table top that I am working on for my sister(heritage meaning it was wood given to me by my now deceased Father). Anyhow, the table is for their vacation condo and will be subject to heavy use (meaning shellac is out of the question because of the alcohol content of their "heavy use").

I am pondering the use of water based aniline dye to given a consistent tone to the table. Can you use any wood conditioners to help with the blotchiness issue with cherry? If so, anyone care to recommend a brand? What are the preferences to top coat, since shellac is ruled out?

Thanks in advance for your help!

Tony Z.

Re: Finishing question

#2

Re: Finishing question

Ron in Kokomo

>I'd use 7 or 8 coats of Watco.

I sand to 400 grit after I have it finish planed. Usually only have to use 300 and 400 grits. Put a coat of Watco on and let it set for 20 min. Wipe off. Wait a day. Put on second coat. Use sanding block and 400 grit to sand while the watco is wet. Sand long enough to work up a litle slurry. Wipe well dry

Wait a day. Wipe on Watco again let set for 20 minutes. Wipe well dry

Repeat this step till you like it. I usually do seven or 8 coats.

If you are really paranoid about the use of adult beverages near the table, you can use a mix that I have used successfully for years after

the second coat.. Use 1/3 satin poly varnish, one third BLO, and one third real turpentine ( or mineral spirits)

I do not EVER color cherry. It is my wood and my preference and I like the way it ages naturally over time

WARNING dispose of all rags properly... I soak all mine in water and wrap them up snugly in aluminum foil for disposal.

Re: Finishing question

#3

Re: Finishing question

Tony Zaffuto

>Thanks Ron,

One of the issues I'm facing with this wood is the color variation! As mentioned it is from wood given by my late Father so I don't have much leeway in mixing in other pieces, hence the possible need to use some dye to get similarity in color.

Cherry is my wood of choice and WITHOUT stain or dyes also! That's why I'm asking as I don't really have experience in coloring cherry.

T.Z.

Re: Finishing question

#4

Another possibility

Dan Donaldson

>Can you work the color variations into the design so that they don't have to be colored out? Just thinking of the walnut table in an earlier thread with the sapwood in the top. It looks great and maybe you could do something similar by adding some other kinds of wood for accents so that you could use the wood as is.

Re: Finishing question

#5

Re: Another possibility

Tony Zaffuto

>Not really. Given the wood I had to work with, I tried to do the best I could. But I still need a bit more help.

Has anyone used wood conditioner under Transfast water based aniline dye? What did you use as the top coat?

When I used stains, I never really had much luck with gel stains (never really gave them a fair shake probably).

Tony Z.

Re: Finishing question

#6

Jim in Burlington Ont.

Re: Another possibility

Jim in Burlington On

>Personally I'd suntan the top for a while if you have time and then decide. Analine dyes work well on cherry. As for the topcoat no doubt in my mind I'd use minwax satin mat quick drying wipeon poly perhaps 10 coats.

Re: Finishing question

#7

Re: Another possibility

Tony Zaffuto

>Thanks Jim,

But have you ever used a wood conditioner under the dye? Tomorrow may be perfect for a cherry sun tan.

T.Z.

Re: Finishing question

#8

Another opinion

David Barnett - SW Florida

>Tony, I understand your dilemma and why you'd turn to dyes to even the colors. Hear me out, though. Trying to match boards with aniline dyes, and this is especially so for cherry, can lead to disappointment. There are several problems involved. Firstly, the boards may have been stored so that those now appearing lighter would actually darken more akin to those starting out darker. It can be hard to believe that but it's often so. Worse, though, is that over time the actual color will likely change. I've built cherry pieces where an almost pinkish blonde becomes a deeper salmon, then to rose with slightly bluish secondaries, finally settling into a complex but darker rose-russet with shimmers of silver and pale purples. This is what I absolutely love about cherry.

While anilines may fade somewhat they do not really change color and are apt to filter those natural changes too monochromatically for my taste. And if gradual color evolvement in the soul of cherry, its figure and so-called 'blotchiness' is its personality. When cherry's first finished, especially with oil, the differences in the wood can really leap out at you. No, this isn't the cherry furniture you see in Ethan Allen showrooms (thankfully, IMO), but real cherry. Thing is, though, it'll change, too. What seems to some a harlequin uncontrollability will surely mellow with time and any amelioration through dyes and pigments can sabotage its final lustre and chatoyance, which is far more subtle and graceful in middle age.

So I guess I'm saying roundabout that I'd encourage accepting the cherry you have on its own terms, and if this project can't be redesigned for more amiable wood contrasts I'd say just go ahead with it. If you have more flexibility I'd further encourage a more balanced use of it in a different project altogether.

One thing, though, while you may want a durable more alcohol-resistant topcoat, cherry becomes its best (again, IMO) with oil, and I second a sanded-in application. I'm no fan of urethane films, wiping or otherwise, so I'd avoid them if at all possible. One other thought; perhaps if you're concerned this piece will be subject to so much wear and tear, again, you might rather reserve this lumber for something else. Such use can become parts of its charm, however, and I like to refurbish my finishes from time to time, right over the dings and scuffs, but that's just me. Your mileage may vary considerably.

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#9

I'm with Ron

Mike Caldwell

>

Re: Finishing question

#10

Jim in Burlington Ont.

Re: Another possibility

Jim in Burlington On

>I've tried several different products under analine dyes and never found any of them made a difference. Personally after sun tanning cherry the color difference adds to the look and it only get's better after a year. I've come to the opion that I won't stain cherry. I have tried other methods like tinting BLO with Transtint dyes that looked good. Gel stains I could never find a color that I thought added to the over all look of cherry.

Re: Finishing question

#11

Varn-Oil

will tracey

>Tony,

Skip the dye because it will age badly, while the wood will age nicely. Fresh cherry is deceptive, as it will never again look like it does the day you lay down your finish. I would also skip watco because it is much to thin to provide good protection if this is a major concern, and you will work very hard for less than desirable results. Once upon a time, before California changed it's voc laws (volatile oragic compounds) watco had a higher solids content providing adequate protection. The current formulation requires many, many coats; and while the results look good they do not offer much in the way of protection. Tage Frid used to make up a finish he called 1-2-3: 1 part boiled linseed oil, 2 parts spar varnish (the real stuff, not urethane based), and 3 parts mineral spirits. Others refer to this blend as varn-oil. The first and second parts are interchangable. It is better even than the old watco formula, and it provides real protection. The varnish is the key, adding enough solids to build a film. Varnish makes it more difficult to rub dry, but it is worth the extra elbow grease. Four to six coats seems to do the trick, apply it just like you would watco. Do not sand until you have put down three coats. If you sand prematurely you will be sanding off the first coats. Sanding oil finishes is tricky because you want to sand the finish, not the wood. Sanding in oil does not really work that well because is negates film building. Cherry is diffuse porous, which means not much grain to fill. If you want to fill the grain use grain filler.

Re: Finishing question

#12

Re: Finishing question

Tony Zaffuto

>To the many who answered me, thanks! What I have done was put the aniline dye away and bought some Watco. I basically followed the instructions on the can last evening for the first two coats. This morning, I added a third coat and "sanded" it in. I will probably "sand" in one more time and then follow up with several more normal coats. So far, the table top looks great--colors are not that uneven and with a few more coats of Watco, I'll be there! For alochol protection (this is for my sister's vacation condo and partying is a prerequisite for staying there), I may use some wipe on low sheen poly, or maybe just wax it (that way, I'll have to visit every month or so to re-wax!)

Again thanks!

Tony

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