Please help with plane purchase

Re: Please help with plane purchase

Jerry Nicholson

>A 5 1/2 Stanley is a nice heavy plane that would probably do the job nicely but you will have to be careful - older 5 1/2s use a 2 1/4 inch blade that is hard to come by. Later models use the same 2 3/8 inch blade as the 4 1/2, 6, and 7. A good 5 1/2 isn't necessarily cheap and, if you get serious about it, you will want to replace the blade with a Hock or Veritas and replace the chip breaker with a Hock or Clifton. With shipping, that will set you back another $70 or so. I have a bunch of Stanley planes (including 5s, a 5 1/2, and a couple of 4 1/2s) because I wanted a bunch of Stanley planes but I would suggest to you that a Lee Valley Low Angle Jack Plane would be more useful in the long run. You might also want to buy a 50 degree blade to go with it. I don't have the LV LA Jack yet (a birthday is coming up, though) but with my LV Bevel Up smoother right out of the box I could feel it clipping the tops of the ripples made by the power planer. To do the job you described, I would probably select the Bevel Up smoother with its standard 50 degree iron. I am definitely NOT an expert on bench planes and others might very different suggestions.

Jerry

Re: Please help with plane purchase

JimG

>I posted on the other side about ebay. That said, if a quick fix is all you are interested in, I suggest you find another way. If this stile is already close to finished dimensions and looking nice, you will probably make it worse in your first attempts at hand planing. Not trying to discourage you from hand planes, but you are not going to pick one up, having never used one, and make a quick fix. Hand planing is a skill and requires practice, much like a router does. Remember the first time you tried to router by hand?

If you really want to take the jump, then a good tool such as the LV people have mentioned will ease the learning curve.

HTH

Reviews *LINK*

Jerry Nicholson

>Check the link for Derek Cohen's reviews on LV planes. Also Alf's reviews at http://www.cornishworkshop.co.uk/index.html.

And watch out for that slippery slope!

Jerry


http://www.onlinetoolreviews.com/reviews/veritaslo

I agree completely

Steve in Phoenix

>I just cannot think of another solution to the problem.

Planes and another idea

Stephen Kirk in Quakertown, PA

>I'm also pretty far from an expert, but I did pick up the LV Low Angle jack mentioned above about a month ago. It is nice, and works pretty well out of the box. Some sharpening makes it work really well though. However, and this is a big point, it runs about $200, which is a tad higher than the 50 your were looking at.

I have the Stanley block plane, and while it will also work, I spent several hours flattening the sole (it's not critical - but it sure does help), and another couple of hours honing the blade. The trouble with the $50 type planes is they don't work out of the box, so you have to know what your doing.

For another idea, can you make a right angle sanding block? I've done it with some edging I needed to smooth down. Just glue 2 3/4" or so boards, maybe 2-3" wide at a 90 deg angle, then tape or glue some sandpaper to one of the boards. The setup keeps things at 90 deg, and a course grit sandpaper should knock that excess down pretty fast, unless your using Ipe or Ironwood or something. That's worked in a pinch for me, and if your aren't going to be seeing this anyway, a hair off 90 probably won't matter.

If you do decide to go with the plane solution

Bill Houghton, sunny yahoo! in Sebastopol, CA

>(there's a pun there, must resist)

go down to your local home center and buy a cheap pine board or a 2x4, trying to avoid one with lots of knots, and practice. The two keys are (a) sharpen the blade, and (b) lighter is better than heavier, by which I mean lots of thin shavings are more effective than big honkin' ones.

There have been some recent threads on cleaning planes; if you buy a used one, scroll down here until you find those threads. The main thing is stay simple - this is ultimately a simple tool, which, like all simple tools, rewards careful use and encourages learning subtlety.

One other possibility

Dan Donaldson

>For right now, it looks like you mainly just want to fix the particular job you are working on. Maybe there is someone in the Phoenix area that would be willing to take a plane over to your shop and do it for you. This would have a couple of advantages to you: First, you would get to meet someone from WC, which is always a good thing;-) Second, you have indicated that you are new to planes and this would give you an opportunity to see how a plane works when tuned properly. (believe me, it really makes a difference when you see how one is supposed to work before trying to set one up yourself). Also, you would get you job done. Not sure if anyone is close to you that would be willing to help, but maybe someone will read this message and contact you if you are interested.

There's no way around it...

Denis Ch�nard, Orl�ans, Ont.

>Two possible avenues here:

- Get a good quality, tier 1 new plane (Veritas, Lie-Nielsen, Clifton, etc.), do the final honing on the blade (they're usually in pretty good shape, they just need that "final touch"), and you're off to the races in a few minutes...

- Buy a "fixer-upper", i.e. a brand new Stanley, Anant, Groz, Footprint, e-bay used Stanley or Record, etc. and fix it up. You will need to flatten the sole, flatten the frog where it makes contact with the blade, check and adjust the frog to base contact points to make sure that the frog sits solidly on the base (most important), hone the cap iron so that it makes full contact with the blade (same thing with the lever cap), flatten the back of the blade, hone the bevel, then you're in business. With a bit of practice under my belt now, I can take a "kit" (that's what all the planes in this category are) and bring it to useable shape within an hour.

Over the longer term, you will find out that this category of planes will let you down when tested with difficult wood species. Poorer construction, lower quality (and thinner) blades that will make you more intimate with your stones (or whatever sharpening system you're using). At that point you will want the extra quality and ability of the tier 1 planes...

One last point... Veritas and Lie-Nielsen planes use ductile iron or bronze in their construction, making them "unbreakable" if dropped from your bench down to the concrete floor (I'm not sure about Clifton). Cheaper brands (and old Stanleys) are made of cast iron, these will break if dropped...

HTH,

DC

Good idea!

Denis Ch�nard, Orl�ans, Ont.

>Hey, I'll do it, if you pay my plane fare :)

Airplane, that is...

DC

Re: Please help with plane purchase

Frank D. in Montreal

>Don't tell anyone I told you this,

but you could rout freehand using the stile itself as support. Start at one end, set a good quality fluted bit for a 3/64" depth of cut (or a tad less so you can sand), and rout backwards. You'll have trouble when you get to the other end (no more support), but if you can clamp a wide board to the back of the stile, you can tack another board on top of it, right next to the stile (so it is 3/64" or so higher), and finish off. You have to be comfortable freehanding with a router. This is similar to routing backgrounds for carvings.

A heretic! Burn him!

Denis Ch�nard, Orl�ans, Ont.

>Suggesting an "electric" router in a hand tool forum...

Where's this world going to?...

:)

DC

Hehe,

Frank D. in Montreal

>I was wondering how long it would take for someone to jump on me, Denis! Better burn me than a few electrons, eh? Love it!

I'll get back at you during the Rosewood conference in May (I'll shove a few beers down your throat!).

Re: Please help with plane purchase

paul womack

>I am tempted by buying new (but $50 range) in the hope of using it straight out of the box, but I guess that is not realistic. I just do not want to make a mountain of a molehill by buying vintage and needing to do some serious refurb.

Unless you go Lee Valley or Lie Neilsen a new tool will need more refurb (AKA re-tooling) than a vintage one, hence the normal recommendation.

Do you have sharpening equipment? A plane with a blunt blade is a paperweight, even if it's a Holtey.

BugBear

Re: solutions

Moses Yoder in White Pigeon, MI

>One solution would be to cut out the rail and install a new one that is the right thickness with pocket screws. Another solution would be to find someone in the Phoenix area that has used hand planes for a while and invite them over for dinner, with one of their favorite planes ;)

Re: More heresy!

John in NM

>Sounds like you need a belt sander and a light touch. Though I'd use a plane myself, a belt sander would do the same job, and if you're careful, would probably yield better results first time out. Then take your ROS and clean up the heavy marks left by the sander. A belt sander is also very handy on built in jobs for scribing to the very un-flat walls seen in modern construction.

I hate to discourage the use of a plane, but it sounds like you're interested in the solution more than the technique, and hand planes can be pretty technique-oriented. You could also go to your local Woodcraft (there's one in Pheonix, right?) and post a note looking for local plane users, or perhaps one of the clerks knows someone who would help you out.

Anyway, good luck with it,

John

Re: Hehe,

Denis Ch�nard, Orl�ans, Ont.

>My mouth is wide open! 8^)

We'll see you there!

DC

Re: Please help with plane purchase

Patrick Gibbons, Houston, TX

>"I am not interested in collecting and restoring vintage tools for a hobby or using hand tools as a regular practice." While I understand you want a solution for an immediate problem, you are short-sighted to believe that you do not need hand tool skills. What will you do the next time this problem comes up? Owning one plane, I would recommend a 4 1/2 smoother, and knowing how to use it will solve an amazing number of problems easily. Your woodworking will benefit from "using hand tools as a regular practice".

Disagree

Bill Houghton, sunny yahoo! in Sebastopol, CA

>Steve hasn't mentioned what kind of wood his cabinet is made from. If it's a mild wood - pine or most North American hardwoods - and if the used plane he buys is in decent shape, it's not really necessary to do a super-tune job on a plane in order to get it workable.

Other than cleaning them, waxing working surfaces, and sharpening the irons, I have yet to do any tuning on any of the (very) used planes I've purchased, and they seem to smooth wood.

Re: Please help with plane purchase

Dan Clermont in Burnaby

>My understanding is Karly Holtey pre sharpens the blade for you when you buy one of his planes.

;)

Cheers

Dan CLermont

Re: Disagree

Steve Mackay

>Bill ; I may have missed this so far . . . WAX the working surfaces ? My Dad is a machinist and recomnended petrolium. That did'nt sound good for wood. Does the wax also hold rust and discoloration at bay ?

Re: Even more heresy

Dave Mount

>Steve--

Sure don't want to discourage you from jumping into the hand plane fray, and there's plenty of advice on that above. As someone else said, it's a good excuse to pick up some capability that will come in handy again in the future.

However -- if you just want to get it done. . .

The router solution referenced above will work fine. You can deal with the problem of running out of support as you finish by leaving a couple thin strips of material at the original thickness to support your router, then knock them off with a chisel (still a hand tool!) and sand smoooth.

Or, if you have a power jointer, just face joint the excess material off until you're close and sand the rest flush.

Or, find a cabinet shop with a wide belt sander and give them $10 to sand it down. Don't take it all the way down, because the rails will end up with cross-grain scratches. Take the last off by sanding.

Hand-held belt sander mentioned above will work, though it's a little harder to control IMHO than the other options.

Good luck,

Dave

It's worked for me so far

Bill Houghton, Sebastopol, CA

>and it results in much smoother movement of the working parts. If you wax the sole, also, the plane will glide across the wood - I always think I've sharpened the iron without noticing it when I wax the sole.

I use basic paste wax, as can be found in any hardware store or home center. I was told once that automotive paste wax has fine abrasives in it, so I don't use that.

Thank you Sir . . .

Steve Mackay

>for another mystewry of the universe !

Achem's Razor !

Steve Mackay

>