Oil stones

Re: Oil stones

Joe Rogers, Northern Virginia

>It may well be a Washita stone. They would dish with use but very slowly. The only sure way to tell of it is a Washita would be to use it I guess. I flattened my hard Arkansas stone with a DMT diamond hone (coarse)so it should work for a Washita.JR

identification...

Bryan in Broad Ripple, IN

>Trying to identify old oil stones is tricky, especially if you've never seen a particular example in person. Making matters more difficult is that these are natural products, so variations do exist and can confuse matters even worse.

There is no harm in trying to flatten it, and it won't hurt the value or collectability. First, try flattening it with some 60 grit Norton 3X. If it flattens easily it could be a Washita or perhaps a Queer Creek Sandstone. If it just sort of skates off and just gets a bit scratched up, it's likely to be either a hard or soft Arkansas. A diamond stone will flatten these, although it's pretty time consuming.

I've typed a few by calculating their specific gravity. The offical classifications for Washita and Arkasas stones are based on their specific gravity (amongst other properties). If the stone's dimensions can be easily measured, and if you have a fairly accurate digital food scale, you can calculate the specific gravity. I have a few mystery stones where the specific gravity is right on the border between soft and hard Arkasas stones, so I'll probably never know for certain what exactly they are. If you want more into on the specific gravity calcs, let me know.

-Bryan

Re: identification...

Todd O. Cronkhite Maine Native now in Jax Fl.

>Jack,

The best thing you can do with stone is send it immediatly to me and save yourself a lot of grief. ;~)

As you may know I have within the last 6 months gotten quite enamered with natural stones and there is lots to learn about them. I have collected a few known samples of stones for indentification of flea market finds purposes. I also have some stones that are yet ID'd, but that is because I haven't gotten around to cleaning them yet. I clean mine by boiling them which does a fantastic job, however this will do you no good since it is stuck in the box.

I was pretty certain that it was a translucent until you said it was slightly dished. Now, this dosen't rule out it not being a Translucent altogether, but it takes forever to dish a Translucent. I'd be curious to know the extent of the dish. Lay a straight edge on it and with a dial indicater or feeler guages measure the depth of the dish. Also what are the demensions of this stone?

More than likely it is glued into the bottom of the box. Unless of coarse it is really really really old and in a homemade box, than it may just be stuck.

Is there any markings on the box?

To clean it what I'd do is starting with the FINEST grits of sandpaper that you can just to remove the top layer of grime. Work your way DOWN to rougher grits until you find one that will remove the grime. Now, I have not tried this, but to me it makes sense to start with the finest grit you have and work your way down to the roughest one that will work.

Got a picture of it?

Bryan, I'd be interested in your specific gravity calculations. Matter of fact I was just thinking about this very thing just yesterday, so it's interesting that you should mention them today as it proves that it's not just another crack-pot idea of mine. Unless of coarse you happen to be a crackpot too. ;~)

I think we'd all benefit from you posting them right here on WC.

Todd O.

Re: identification...

Jack Guzman from Maine

>Thanks for the info. I don't worry about value or collectability.This is a tool that I intend on using. So is a washita a good stone for final polish or if not,where does it fit in the shapening sequence?---Jack

Re: identification...

Joe Rogers, Northern Virginia

>I recently got a Lily Wite Washita from Joel at Tools for Working Wood (gloat alert) and it feels very much like my hard Arkansas in grit. Slightly softer in composition so it will dish easier. For a chisel or knife it will do fine for the finish stone. My translucent or surgical black stones polish the bevel better so I use them for plane blades after the Washita. It(the Lily White Washita) is finer than my soft Arkansas stone.YMMV.JR

Re: identification...

Jack Guzman from Maine

>Todd,I was hoping you would chime in.I'm aware of your quest for stones. I haven't had a chance to play with it yet,I just got it this afternoon.I'll be cleaning it up abit tomorrow.I didn't notice any writing on the box.It's oak and pretty solid.I'll take a picture and post it after I clean it up.

I appreciate the kind offer but I'll buck up and handle the grief.---Jack

Re: identification...

Todd O. Cronkhite Maine Native now in Jax Fl.

>If it turns out to be a hard stone than it will be good for touching up a blade where it just past the point where a translucent won't quite do it. In the sequnce it would be right after the Soft arkansas.(washita) From my limited knowledge in the grand scheme of things it would go Lily White or Washita*, Hard, Translucent** to bring a beater edge back to life. Once the edge is properly honed to razor sharpness it is best to touch it up (hone) on your translucent to keep it razor sharp--HOWEVER, if you let it get past that point, than hit it a few strokes on the Hard than back up to the Translucent.

*The Lily White and Washita are both Soft stones for fast metal cutting, good for back flattening. The Lily White being the best/fastest cutting grade of Washita's. If you don't have a Lily White than starting off with a Washita is fine, it just dosen't cut as fast as the Lily White, but still cuts fast. I have also gone from a Soft Stone right to the Translucent with good results as the edge that you'd get from a good Soft stone will cut wood quite well, but the Translucent will hone it to a bit better performance.

** Translucent: Many kinds, with the White ones being the most common, HOWEVER there is also Black, Pink and Green Translucents that I know of. I have a Pink one but have not used it yet.

Clear as mud right? Yup, it is confusing, and until you use a good soft stone for the first time you'll never fully appreciate what they can do. I was astounded the first time I used one, and it was an education unto itself.

Now, somewhere in the mix is the Rosey Reds (Soft Arkansas I believe) and the India stone (manmade) which I have yet to use or figure out it's purpose.

Disclaimer: I am no expert yet, but have learned alot in the past few months, so if I have said anything wrong please feel free to correct me.

Todd O.

Re: identification...

Todd O. Cronkhite Maine Native now in Jax Fl.

>Dang Jack, I was afraid you'd say that, but not the least bit surprised. ;~)

T.O.

here's the stone

Jack Guzman from Maine

>I wiped it down real good with mineral spirits and took this picture.It is hollow in the center and both sides are rounded off in the center section.---Jack

after flattening

Jack Guzman from Maine

>I tried using a 400 grit diamond plate with mineral spirits and it worked but once it started removing material it stuck.I tried medium grit drywall sanding sheet on a granite block and it worked great.Two sheets later and I got it flat across the center with just a narrow section of roundover on each side in the center. Good enough for honing chisels.If I find a need for a totally flat edge I can always flatten some more. I ran out of sanding sheets.

I honed a wide thin chisel I use for paring and it brought the chisel back to sharp with just a few strokes.

I think this may be useful for between sharpenings for quick edge touch ups.

This picture is after flattening and clean up with mineral spirits. It darkened a little(yellowed) after I applied oil and honed the chisel.---Jack

Re: after flattening

Joe Rogers, Northern Virginia

>Looks like my hard Arkansas after honing several edges on it. Based on the hollow I am leaning towards the Washita tho. Bet the stone isn't glued into the block. Looks like gelled honing oil has stuck it in place. Several more apps of mineral spirits may free it and you could see a fresh surface. Good find! JR

Re: after flattening

Todd O. Cronkhite Maine Native now in Jax Fl.

>Jack,

Taking my best educated guess in my limited education and a not so good picture I'd have to agree completely with JR. There appears to be signs of spots of a differnt color than the main matrix in this stone, which is a sign of a soft stone, as well as streaks of various colors. Coarse, soft stones can also be solid colors as well with red and white seeming to be the most common.

Looks to be a homemade box and the stone is simply stuck in either thru wood swelling, or a damn tight fit by the maker.

Do you have a Translucent? If so, go from this stone to the Translucent and see what happens. I think you'll be pleasently surprised. :~)

Best thing to do is to get at least a known Washita, and a Hard Arkansas for comparision purposes of unknown stones. Be advised tho, this can become another Slippery Slope unto itself.

I sure do wish you hadn't bucked up and sent me that stone.;~)

Todd O.