Klausz workbench glue-up questions (pics)

Re: Klausz workbench glue-up questions (pics)

Darin in Victoria

>I glued the first 6 to 12 inches on the caps and just let them move towards the rear. So far I haven't had any problems.

Re: Klausz workbench glue-up questions (pics)

Joe Rogers, Northern Virginia

>Nice bench!

Re: Klausz workbench glue-up questions (pics)

Alan Bierbaum, near Denver, CO

>"My question is - do you glue the splines and end-caps in place (of course, only gluing the front couple of inches to account for expansion)? "

I did - no problems so far.

I glued the tool tray ramps to the end cap, bench top, and back rail as well (not to the floor of the tool tray - expansion area).

Alan

Re: Klausz workbench glue-up questions (pics)

ThomD

>I didn't glue mine.

Are you going to use a lathe to shorten the screw eventually?

Re: Klausz workbench glue-up questions (pics)

GolfSteve in Calgary

>" glued the tool tray ramps to the end cap, bench top, and back rail as well (not to the floor of the tool tray - expansion area). "

I don't understand - if you glue to the bench, the endcaps, and the rear of the tooltray I don't see how you can allow for expansion. The bottom is plywood and would not be moving anywhere. The benchtop is expanding/contracting, but the sides and rear remain constant. It seems unavoidable that at times you must allow for a gap between the ramp and the bench for when the benchtop expands and contracts.

Re: Klausz workbench glue-up questions (pics)

GolfSteve in Calgary

>I will shorten the screw as the extra length is in the way. I don't have a lathe, so I will do what Klausz did in the Workbench article - cut the screw short then use a jig and a bench grinder to remove the extra threads.

I can do this at work where the facilities are more robust and where things are dirty as heck to begin with so I don't have to worry about messing up the shop with grinding dust.

Re: Klausz workbench glue-up questions (pics)

GolfSteve in Calgary

>Clarification - the workbench article in the Woodworker's Journal...one of the best magazine issues ever. That article addresses some of the shortcomings in Landis' writeup of the Klausz bench in the Workbench book. Using the Woodworker's journal article and the Landis book together really helps figure out a few of the tough spots.

Neither article talks about how to attach the tootray ramp.

Re: Klausz workbench glue-up questions (pics)

Alan Bierbaum, near Denver, CO

>"The bottom is plywood and would not be moving anywhere. The bench top is expanding/contracting, but the sides and rear remain constant. It seems unavoidable that at times you must allow for a gap between the ramp and the bench for when the bench top expands and contracts. "

You are correct; and I miss-stated what I had done. The ply tray bottom is glued to the back rail and has expansion slots where attached to the bench top (top expands over the tool tray bottom). The ramps are not glued to the bench top (I left a small gap there the allow for expansion).

Of interest on expansion:

My shop is climate controlled year round and expansion has not been an issue for me. I have a 36" all thread running between the front of the face vise and the rear of the bench top. The nuts have not been pulled into the wood and never seem to get loose. I keep an unfinished table top offcut to check for wood movement. The length of this off cut (30" - all across the face grain) seems to move about 3/16" over the year due to moisture variations. Either the all thread is stronger than it appears; or the finish on the bench is working to keep moisture variation down.

Tooltray ramp expansion clearance

GolfSteve in Calgary

>Thanks Alan. The thing that confuses me here is that I've never seen any gap between the bench and the tooltray ramp on any of the benches I've seen or in any of the benches pictured in the various books and magazines.

Re: Tooltray ramp expansion clearance

Alan Bierbaum, near Denver, CO

>I think that I (and many others') fell into the miss-conception that the ramp is so narrow that expansion is not a problem. In fact, the depth of the bench top is the distance that moisture affects. I only left about 1/16" gap and do not ever remember seeing much more than that on any benches. Maybe benches are unique and do not really move as much as the products built on them (therefore it is not really a problem)!

Re: Klausz workbench glue-up questions (pics)

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Why glue the tool tray at all? I still haven't finally decided on whether having one is good or bad or inbetween; but if I did install one I'd make it hinged and held by clips on the back so it could be cleaned easily.

Pam

Re: Klausz workbench glue-up questions (pics)

Alan Bierbaum, near Denver, CO

>"Why glue the tool tray at all? I still haven't finally decided on whether having one is good or bad or inbetween; but if I did install one I'd make it hinged and held by clips on the back so it could be cleaned easily."

For the same reason that I glue any joint; it makes the joint stronger. In this case; a 3/4" ply bottom into a groove in the back rail and end caps. I use the back rail for project support and leveled it along with the main part of the bench top (think table/chair legs resting on the main top and back rail). Glueing the tray bottom th the back rail and end caps means less deflection in the back rail with a project sitting on top of it. I don't need to open the tool tray bottom just to clean it; sweep up the end ramps or use a shop vac. When I pound on something on the bench; I don't want to hear the tool tray rattle. I would not use hinges either as I use the tray to hold tools that I don't want to accidentally end up on the concrete shop floor.

I like, and use, my tool tray; others do not like them. Both opinions are valid; take your choice.

Alan

Re: Klausz workbench glue-up questions (pics)

GolfSteve in Calgary

>Hi Pam. I didn't glue mine - I used glue blocks on the bottom of the tray through which I drove screws into the rear rail. I wanted the tray to be removable in case I ever had the need to use clamps at the rear of the bench. David Charlesworth along with many others stress how much they like the ability to clamp from both sides of the bench.

Your idea of hinges is interesting. I like complicated things and I think I could have made this really complicated if I had more time. I'm at the point of this project where I just want to get it done.

Re: Frid approach

ThomD

>As you doubltess know, Klaus does it with a wood lathe in the landis book. Whatever gets rid of the excess metal is all that maters.

In the Frid book, he mentions screwing the blocks in from the bottom. Glued joinery is a great thing, but in this case where a tight fit is necesarry, but there is some contrary wood movement, screws seem like the elegant solution.

Cheers for Frid. Every piece in his plan is given a letter code. And anywhere the piece is mentioned in the instructions, the letter code is given in bold type. Wonderful system for tracking instructions

Re: Klausz workbench glue-up questions (pics)

Todd Stock

>I glued the splines into the end caps, but there is little or no advantage to glueing cross-grain, other than creating more potential for splits should you miss tightening the cross-grain hardware. As for the tray, the design calls for the front edge to be screwed to the bench top and the back edge to be set in a rabbet of sufficient depth to handle the top movement (which drags/shoves the bottom of the tool tray around a bit).

Unless you are storing lead weights in the tray, there is plenty of beef to handle the load. I considered doing the L-N thing, and using a removable panel, but ramps and a $3 wisk broom handle the chips that end up in the tray.

Build it as indicated and don't bother with glue. Probably a good case of not fixing what is not broken.

My first bench is still in use 25 years after construction (the Tage Frid from FWW), and my 'new' Klausz looks like it will provide pretty decent service. Finally got my luthing benches built, so the Klausz is back to woodworking duty (no ugly vise sticking out of the top).

Re: Klausz workbench glue-up questions (pics)

Todd Stock

>I'm not certain why gluing would give you any structural advantages, unless you store the contents of your weightroom in the tray. As designed, the tray is screwed to the back edge of the main benchtop and rests in a rabbet on the back edge. A 1/2" rabbet (in a 1" finished stick) is more than deep enough to accomodate wood movement.

I had toyed with putting cleats on the back board and the back edge of the main bench slab. This would have made the tray bottom removable; however, ramps dump chips at the ends of the bench, making cleanup a bit less of a pain.

Re: Klausz workbench glue-up questions (pics)

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Yeah, my alternative would be to make the ramp itself removeable or hinged.

Pam

Re: Klausz workbench glue-up questions (pics)

Joe Rogers, Northern Virginia

>Beautiful workshop Todd. Do you have a saw till to compliment the plane till?

BTW did you get my email on the #79. It seems negotiations have stalled:-)

JR

Re: Klausz workbench glue-up questions (pics)

GolfSteve in Calgary

>Thanks Todd. How did you attach the ramps in your workbench tooltray?

Re: Klausz workbench glue-up questions (pics)

Todd Stock

>Just make the center 6" of the tray removable (similar to LN) - the ramps are there strictly to make chip removal easier, so why bother if you are going to put a dump panel in?

Re: Klausz workbench glue-up questions (pics)

Todd Stock

>Just swapped to Verizon FIOS - shoot me a mail at old address, but swap verizon.com for comcast.net - should work!

Small saw till - just for the backsaws. need to do one for the panel saws, but my 'things to do' list has stalled since all the Alaska work.

Re: Klausz workbench glue-up questions (pics)

Todd Stock

>I cheated - angled 1/2" stock to support the ramps, then 1/2" Baltic tacked in place with a couple of small brads - pretty much invisible. Easy to remove if ever necessary and looks/feels like a solid piece of wood.

Re: Klausz workbench glue-up questions (pics)

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Oh, so that's what the ramps are for?! I'd thought maybe they were so the tools could have a slide now and then. :)

Of course, you're correct.

Pam

Re: Klausz workbench glue-up questions (pics)

Joe Rogers, Northern Virginia

>That one bounced too. How about you ping me and I'll reply:-)JR