Chunk of wood with blade stuck in it *LINK*

Re: And then if the plane is not useable?

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>That's really my point, Cameron, he doesn't do much at all. So what good does it do to pay him double the going rate?

Pam

Re: And then if the plane is not useable?

Dan Clermont in Burnaby

>I don't know how you can hold an old tool seller responsible for not checking the temper on the blade before selling it to you. Did you outright ask him to exchange the blade?

Most people replace old blades with Hock's, LV or LN's when they plan on using an old plane. Same goes with chisels.

I can't tell you how many old chisels I have bought that have had edges which were distempered from someone using a grinder.

As far as new tools from LV, LN and Clifton I would expect the edges to hold up and the soles to be relatively flat straight from the factory as that is why I am paying the big bucks.

Dan Clermont

Re: Yes and no...

Cameron

>When he's selling on eBay he's not really setting the prices, is he? Was the plane anything special, Pam?

Re: And then if the plane is not useable?

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>I don't know how you can hold an old tool seller responsible for not checking the temper on the blade before selling it to you.

I was dumb and didn't know at the time that this was a possibility. And based on previous old tool purchases, I did expect a seller who charged double the going rate to do something for that money. So my expectations were out of whack with the reality of agressive sellers everywhere; and by the end of that year I was disabused (it took two more old tools sellers) of the notion that old tool sellers cared about what they sold into the old tools group.

See, I wouldn't even consider selling edge tools, even on ebay, without first sharpening the edges, much less to insult the potential buyer with descriptions such as chunk of wood with metal inserted. This is agressive and abusive behavior.

Pam

Re: Yes and no...

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>The one on ebay? I don't think so; but I don't read Japanese or Chinese, so it may have been, always possible.

Pam

Pat is A-OK

Ron in Kokomo

>Have bought several tools from him

never any kind of complaint that wasn't peomptly resolved.

Have been around him several times at auctions, galoot events

He is a nice feller

Yes he is

Wiley Horne--Glendora, CA

>I've bought several items from him, and am always happy to see the monthly list come out, as well as his ebay auctions.

One thing that hasn't been said elsewhere in this thread is that Patrick Leach ships under old tool terms--you say 'i want it'; he ships to you; you either send him a check for the original price plus postage off the package, or send him the tool back. In other words, you only buy what you accept after you've seen it and used it. I've always been happy with what he sent.

His prices have been discussed in this thread. The prices he gets, and that others get , are simply a market outcome--people spending their own money of their own free will, with the alternatives in full view. Many times I have responded to a monthly list offering with a 'want to buy', only to find out that the item I want has already been bought, no doubt by someone on the right coast who was up 3 hours ago. My point: There are multiple takers at the prices he's asking. And also: he finds really good things.

Wiley

His prices

Ron in Kokomo

>The American economic system forces hime to charge no more that his customers are willing to pay. He has had a 15 year track record of doing this very very successfully. He would be my very first preference in an old tool dealer to sell me a tool sight unseen. He has never let me down. I know Todd can find stuff cheaper than Leach will sell it. But he has the time to search. Lots of folks don't. I can understand you not likeing his sense of humor.... but he has an excellent reputation on the net after 15 years oe so. Not all can say that

Re: His prices

Moses Yoder in White Pigeon, MI

>I would never trust anyone to sell me a tool sight unseen, and if I did buy a tool I would expect the seller to take it back and give me my money back if I wasn't satisfied with it. It just seems like good business to me. I have in the past payed plenty extra for jeans just because I want the "Wrangler" tag on the back. I doubt I'm the only cowboy out there.

Re: His prices

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>To each his own, Ron. [remainder of message deleted by Moderator as prohibited personal attack]

Pam

Re: Chunk of wood with blade stuck in it

The Village Tool Butcher

>Taking a break from a self-imposed diet of internet forums, and hearing the cyber dinner bell clanking from afar for some unappetizing 'gristled' and wizend victuals, you can call me anything you like, but don't call me late for dinner...........

It's so good to see you still have that juicy tenderloin of Leach on your dinner plate, love. I know hell hath no fury like a woman scorned, but Congreve never had you as a dinner guest.

Some say gorging upon that tasty morsel day after day often doesn't do one's constitution well, and can sometimes lead to a permanent hair across the arse. I suggest a change of diet, perhaps something lighter, surgary, and maybe even a bit fluffy to remedy that sour and dyspeptic reflux sticking in your craw.

You know, my offer to take the $55 #78 back, which took you eight months to pay for (funny how you never mention that in your vitriolic 'vomittings'), still stands, and this even though you bought it back in the mid-90's.

But, you choose not to do that. For if you did, you wouldn't be able to conjure up ill-will, evil spirits, wicked spells, and general black angst whilst stirring your boiling cauldron of spiteful soup so you can cast your anti-Leach spells whenever and wherever you can.

C'mon, dear, ain't it about time you let it go? It's been over 10 years since your first bout of Leach indigestion. The sane and satiated amoungst us would say that the roast of Leach is well done by now, the bone has been picked clean, and it's time to sample something different from the menu.

And for the rest of the folks that don't get it - my ebay listings, that is - it's called 'humour'. You either appreciate a daily feast of that, or you don't. Apparently, the kitchen ran out during brunch judging by the deafening hunger pangs in here.

Just say, Bon apetit......

Perhaps this is not the appropriate forum...

David Barnett

>...to give free expression to such strongly disparaging personal opinions of others; in fact, a person esteemed by many for long-time positive contributions to the handtool woodworking hobby. Some of us are better than others at keeping attitudinal issues and behavioral challenges in check -- we all bear these responsibilities -- that is, within appropriate bounds of polite and constructive public discourse (hey, I like a good topic-driven argument as much as the next guy or gal), but I find your remarks, while perhaps not libelous (you have a right to your opinion), overstep my expectations for WoodCentral. It's sad that Patrick Leach cannot be mentioned in this forum without incurring your ire and ad hominum attacks. Your experience with Patrick sharply differs from mine and apparently differs from many others who post here and elsewhere. I doubt that Mr. Leach and other tool dealers have targeted you personally for uncharacteristic exploitation. At any rate, I suspect you've been spared some embarrassment through the absence of retaliatory or defensive public rebuttals from them.

I'm sorry that you've either had bad tool purchasing experiences or perceive that you have, and I assume you honestly feel this way -- you've never given me cause to believe otherwise. I do not dislike you, by the way, enjoy talking with you in the WC chatroom, find you entertaining and feel you have much to offer, but such digressions into your distrust of others and subsequent perceived victimization induce stress, at least in me, and make this a less pleasant venue for enjoyable discussions of woodworking with handtools.

Enough

Ted Owen, Moderator

>This thread has degenerated from legitimate discussion of an obviously humorous and entertaining eBay description to something less than helpful. Patrick, thank you for your response, and that's where we shall leave the matter.

Reporting of negative personal experiences with vendors can be helpful to the group; however, any such reports should be factual only. And purely personal attack will not stand.

Best, Ted

(wondering whether perhaps I should have stepped in earlier)

But, but, No rebuttal from the peanut gallery

Scott Burr in cold Ben Lomond,CA

>Dammit Ted! Guess we'll have to play elsewhere...

: )

Ted Owen, Pittsburgh

>

Well said David

Dan Clermont in Burnaby

>Couldn't agree more.

Dan Clermont

Always two sides to a story...

Dan Clermont in Burnaby

>Thanks for commenting Mr Leach.

Cheers

Dan Clermont