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Vise jaws and bench dogs

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Vise jaws and bench dogs

#1

Vise jaws and bench dogs

Bill Grumbine (Kutztown PA)

>Greetings all

I am replacing my ancient AMT bench vise with a new Groz vise. The vise has a 5 deg tilt to the front jaw. I plan on adding a wooden jaw to that that will house two Veritas bench dogs. They also have a 5 deg angle on the clamping faces. It seems to me that if I just drill holes for the dogs on my drill press, I am going to end up with a 10 deg tilt on the dog faces, and that is going to be too much. What have others here done when confronted with this situation?

Thanks.

Bill

Re: Vise jaws and bench dogs

#2

Re: Vise jaws and bench dogs

ThomD

>Assuming they don't net each other out, then you would be forced to drill the holes at an angle where they would tend to loosen if they raised up. So my preference would be to drill the holes square, and if the 10 deg is a problem adjust the angle on the dog by shimming or grinding.

Re: Vise jaws and bench dogs

#3

Re: Vise jaws and bench dogs

Garrett in Victoria

>Bill

Are you certain that the 5 degree tilt of the vise doesn't disappear under pressure?

Cheers, Garrett

Re: Vise jaws and bench dogs

#4

And wiskers on kittens, rain drops on...

Scott Burr, Freezing rain in Ben Lomond,CA?

>roses, and warm woolen mittens. Ahhh... I'm no help.

Re: Vise jaws and bench dogs

#5

Re: Vise jaws and bench dogs

Dwight Hohweiler

>I can testify that 5* is there to stay. I thought the holes in the front jaw was miss drilled.

Re: Vise jaws and bench dogs

#6

Re: Vise jaws and bench dogs

Scott in Douglassville, PA

>Frankly, Bill, I'd be (and am) using 3/4" hardwood dowels cut to length from Lowe's as bench dogs. Easier on plane irons when you nick them (and you will eventually), easier to accumulate, and much cheaper. That'd fix your angle issue, too.

Scott

Re: Vise jaws and bench dogs

#7

Re: Vise jaws and bench dogs

Bill Grumbine (Kutztown PA)

>Thanks for the responses guys. Garrett, I tightened that vise with authority, and as Dwight says, that 5 deg is going to stay.

Scott, it never occurred to me to make some wooden dogs. I have had these Veritas dogs for almost 13 years now, but I am sure I can find some other duty for them. Now, if I can just find a source for some good 3/4" dowels... ;-)

Wait. I had better clarify that for those who might be reading this and don't know me very well. That was a joke. I know where I can get 3/4" dowels. I know where I can get 47/64" dowels made from cocobolo if I want.

Bill

Re: Vise jaws and bench dogs

#8

I hear that there's someone in your area

Derek

>who knows how to use a lathe pretty well. Maybe he can teach you how to make a couple dowels! :>)

Re: Vise jaws and bench dogs

#9

Re: Vise jaws and bench dogs

Michael Recchione

>I like the dowel approach, but if you wanted to use the Veritas dogs, and wanted a total of 5 degrees (which would be supplied by the dog), you could just drill the holes in the new wooden face with a -5 degree angle. An easy way to do this is to make and mount the new wooden face for the jaw, plane it level with your benchtop, and then just bore the hole for the dog perpendicular to the top of the jaw. If you do this when the vise is closed tightly, you'll automatically compensate for whatever deformation the jaw suffers when it's tightened. The hole would not be parallel to the metal face of the jaw, but it would be perpendicular to the benchtop. Or am I missing something?

Re: Vise jaws and bench dogs

#10

Re: Vise jaws and bench dogs

Bill Grumbine (Kutztown PA)

>Michael, I thought about that, but it would probably be a whole lot more trouble than just turning a couple of wooden dowels. I still have time to think about it since I have a bunch of other stuff to do before I can get back to it, but right now dowels are in the lead.

Bill

Re: Vise jaws and bench dogs

#11

Hmmm, making dowels you say ...

Stephen Kirk in Quakertown PA

>I just mounted the same Groz vice in a new bench, but I haven't cut dog holes yet. Seems like this dowel thing might be a good idea. Now where in the world could I find a Bill Grumbine who turns dowels ... ??? Hehe, just kidding.

Re: Vise jaws and bench dogs

#12

Dowels, etc.

Michael Recchione

>Bill, I thought about the "easier" part of what we were talking about and got confused. No matter what, you've got to drill holes in the new jaw for the dogs. The only issue is what angle do you drill them at. My original point was that drilling them so that the holes are perpendicular to the benchtop is just as easy as drilling them so they're parallel to the vise jaw face. The only way drilling them perpendicular to the top is harder is if you think only in terms of drilling them on a drill press instead of "in situ". Otherwise, you just close the vise, lay a square on the top of the bench and the top of the jaw (which I'm assuming you're making level to and flush with the benchtop anyway), and eyeball the hole. No?

Re: Vise jaws and bench dogs

#13

Re: Dowels, etc.

Bill Grumbine (Kutztown PA)

>Hi Michael

I am going to plane the tops flush and flat, and yeah, I could eyeball the hole, and do it with a square, but then it is still more work than turning my own dowels. Perhaps you haven't seen me turn. ;-)

Bill

Re: Vise jaws and bench dogs

#14

Re: Hmmm, making dowels you say ...

Bill Grumbine (Kutztown PA)

>Stephen, rumor has it he will be at the guild meeting tomorrow night!

Bill

Re: Vise jaws and bench dogs

#15

Re: Vise jaws and bench dogs

Bruce Branson

>Are you talking about the brass bench dogs with the inward sloping

crosshatched face? Mine are only 2�.

Re: Vise jaws and bench dogs

#16

Re: Dowels, etc.

Michael Recchione

>Bill, your reputation as a turner hasn't escaped me :-). My point was that you'd have to drill holes for the dowels, too. The only thing that would be different would be the angle you drilled the holes at. And, if you didn't think in terms of drilling them on a drill press before you mounted the new face on the vise jaw (this is the hand tool forum, afterall), the work to drill the holes would be identical for the dowels or the LV dogs.

Because I mostly don't use power tools (although I do have a drill press that I primarily use for metal work), it would never occur to me to drill the holes before the face was mounted on the vise, and it would be more of a pain to try to drill them parallel to the metal jaw than to just drill them square to the top - I'd have to copy the angle with a bevel gage and use that instead of a square.

Boy, I could have used your turning skills last weekend - I was making legs for a chair, and it was the first time I had to try to make four things come out more or less the same on the lathe. I made three practice legs in poplar first and then did two of the four real legs - it took all of Sunday afternoon. So we have a ways to go before we get to production grade, I think :-). I am getting much more comfortable with the skew, though - that's a good thing. Anyway, this is the wrong forum for this kind of talk.

Re: Vise jaws and bench dogs

#17

Re: Vise jaws and bench dogs

Bill Grumbine (Kutztown PA)

>Bruce, you are right, and I am mistaken. Serves me right for working from memory.

Bill

Re: Vise jaws and bench dogs

#18

Re: Dowels, etc.

Bill Grumbine (Kutztown PA)

>Therein lies the difference Michael. I love my tailed tools, and while I really like using hand tools too, one set or the other is not going to replace the other entirely. So, naturally the drill press is first and foremost in my mind.

I can understand the duplicating. The first one is always the easiest, and the next one always seems to be the worst! After a few more though, the differences seem to smooth out a bit.

Bill

Re: Vise jaws and bench dogs

#19

Re: Vise jaws and bench dogs

Bruce Branson

>I'am getting ready to do my bench also.Just as soon as I figure out what to use to chamfer the edge of the holes.

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