First Lie-Nielsen Purchase/Problem

Re: First Lie-Nielsen Purchase/Problem

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>I think your mistake is thinking of the LNs as top dollar. They're very good planes for the dollar (at least the specialty and some of the block planes, I don't use metal bench planes), but there are many more that are much more expensive and tooled accordingly, from metal infills to wooden western and eastern styles.

That said, it's a good idea to try a plane before taking a straight edge to it. If all works fine, what do you care. It's only when a plane doesn't work fine that you need to measure and fiddle.

Pam

Re: First Lie-Nielsen Purchase/Problem

Dan Clermont in Burnaby

>Hi Mark

Sorry to hear about the 6 thou sole. It seems quite far out.

My LN soles are extremely flat. Wouldn't worry about the sole being high behind the mouth as that won't affect the performance. Matter of fact, it is better to have the sole high behind the mouth rather then in front of the mouth.

So whatch gonna spend your Christmas money on?

Cheers

Dan Clermont

Re: First Lie-Nielsen Purchase/Problem

paul womack

>It had a taper line across the sole, about two inches in from the back end, and the light reflected different from the rest of the sole (the rest of the sole was perfectly flat). Now, I do not know how this defect got there, from the factory, dropped at the store by someone, who knows.

It sounds like it moved in its fixing during surface grinding, giving 2 separate flat surfaces, as you describe.

I did bring my straight edge with me (Starrett) and checked the Lie-Nielsen's in stock to get an idea of what to expect across some of the other planes available (#3 Brass, #4 1/2 Iron, etc). Nothing was near as bad as the plane I returned, but none were perfect end to end. They all seemed to have a slight dip about centered behind the mouth and the back end of the sole. Maybe within the .0015" spec., I did not measure, just a light test.

It is semi-famous that the human eye will pick up a bright light shining through a 1/10 thou gap. Very few planes would pass a "no light" test with a trusted "test grade" straight edge.

And the LN spec is (IIRC) -1.5 -> +1.5 thou from mean plane. IIRC the LV spec is 0 -> 3 thou from mean plane. Some people misread this to think the LN spec is twice as tight as the LV spec.

BugBear

Re: First Lie-Nielsen Purchase/Problem

John Hoffman

>Hi, sorry to hear of the problem. As others I have had great expirience with LN tools and none of the 4 planes I have have this issue. I also damaged a 60 1/2R plane and sent it to them. They fixed it for me no charge. I know you returned the plane to woodcraft however I think you could have sent it to Maine and got a replacement without loosing your 20% discount. I suggest you call the factory and tell them the issue and order from them.

Good luck.

JH

Re: First Lie-Nielsen Purchase/Problem

ThomD

>You are correct that they may not literally be top dollar, but they are more than enough dollar to get competant machining which is what one normally gets. Of ocurse it'a not as though cast iron is a stable material.

Re: First Lie-Nielsen Purchase/Problem

Bob Dodge

>Hi Mark,

Sorry to hear about your experience, and yes indeed, it does happen to the best of 'em every now and then. One thing you can absolutely count on with Lie-Nielsen, is that they'll "make it right". That's an intrinsic part of what Lie-Nielsen is about. It's too bad you didn't let them know directly, as I'm sure they would have sent you a replacement in pretty short order. I am just sooo impressed, not only with their outstanding products, but with the entire customer relation experience. Can you even begin to imagine walking into a tool store, and being served by someone with even a 1/4 of the competancy of a Rob Cosman?

I most certainly do hope that you'll one day have the pleasure of using a well-tuned Lie-Nielsen #4. I'm quite sure that if you compare this product to others, that you'll suddenly see them as great value, and a product that truly sets a standard. For me, there's no going back.

Bob

Next time, if there is one...

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA

>Contact LN first. Tell them the problem, trust me, they WILL fix it. I've never had any problems with any of their products.

True on both counts

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>

Re: True on both counts

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>A nit-picking detail: It's ductile iron, not cast iron, which should help a bit with the stability. Of course, it's the quality control of the casting and seasoning of the iron, and subsequent milling steps, that make the most difference in stability.

It's a lot more stable than wood, at least the wood I work. :^)

I've heard tell that, after casting their t*bl* s*w tables, Powermatic used to leave them laying outside on the Canadian prairie, in the sun and the sleet and the snow, for a year or so to properly season before machining them. (Maybe I should capitalize "Season"? Theirs certainly have a lot more meaning than the seasons experienced on the Cohansey, or even those in New England.) I wonder whether WMH Tool Group still follows those stress relief practices?

Re: True on both counts

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Yes, but I decided to let the "cast iron" bit go in the spirit of Thom's message.

I haven't a clue what Powermatic does, whether or not unmachined cast iron ever makes it to N. American shores anymore. I suspect these things arrive at our doors straight from the east/middle east. Nice story, though.

Pam

Re: True on both counts

ThomD

>Just as well you did, or you both would have been wrong. Ductile iron is a form of Cast Iron. Cheaper in manufacture, and with higher performance than maleable cast iron. The major use of this material is sewer pipe, are you feeling a high tech tingle running down your spine!

I didn't see anything much about greater stability relative to what happens post casting, but it has much less shrinkage during casting which is one of the cost advantages relative either to the casting process or the post casting machining. Given the fact that this stuff is cheaper and better one wonders how much of the universe of "Cast Iron" was one of many varieties of Ductile CI in the first place.

The release of stress leading to warping is pretty typical of casting. General used to season their castings for 6 months prior to machining.

Thank you everyone for your replies

Mark in South Florida

>Thank you everyone for your replies.

I new to hand planes and I am learning, your experiences help me with that.

A few replies:

I am not trying to say the planes in the store were bad. In fact, I think they were pretty good, especially in comparrison to the one I returned. My expectation of a LN plane is that I would have to nothing in regards to the sole flatness. Therefore, the little variation that exists should not hinder the performance of the plane in any significant way. Everything has tolorance! Therefore, I was throwing the questions out here to make sure I am inline with reality and my expectations. If you all would have come back to me and said �you have to flatten it silly� I guess I would have to come to grips with that fact.

I still feel I should not have to do anything at a LN price point and their reputation. If I am going to flatten a sole to get it right, I am going to start with a cheaper plane.

I did call LN first! The women I spoke with was very nice and very apologetic. I told her I was going to return it and she stated that I should not have any problems with Woodcraft, which I did not. She did not offer to take it back directly and I did not ask, maybe I should have. I did not want a reworked plane, haggle over shipping, etc. These were my fears. Anyway, to me it was the same hassle/cost to take it to Woodcraft or to ship it out. As far as Woodcraft goes, I am loosing the discount because; the store I bought from did not have a replacement for me. I could go back later and get the same price, no problem. However, I am literally driving away my discount with my truck in today�s gas prices going back and forth, not an exaggeration. Woodcraft is not close to the house. If I go with LN, I will go direct this time. Also, I am not going to try to push the 20% discount in the case of a different purchase.

Where am I at with this? I think everyone is saying go get another LN from directly from Maine. Maybe they will hand pick one for me to start me off on the right foot.

I will be out this weekend and will read your replies on Sunday evening. Thanks again, great community here to get information.

Sewer pipe

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>I'm actually encouraged that my sewer pipe could be as fine a casting as my LN planes; but if it came down to a choice, I'd trade all my LN planes for a working sewer pipe. :)

Pam

I'll take you up on that offer

Dan Clermont in Burnaby

>Hi Pam,

Send me your address and I will get that pipe sent to you ASAP. I will cover shipping for both the planes and the pipe along with the contents in the pipe.

Cheers

Dan Clermont

Re: Sewer pipe

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>LOL! Yup, you gotta keep these things in perspective.

Re: Sewer pipe

ThomD

>Don't send too much pipe, Pam has maybe a faucet's worth of LN planes

Re: I'll take you up on that offer

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Heh, heh, I'm sure the shipping charges would cost more than the value of the LN planes I have. Thanks, though.

Pam