Flattening plane soles - Where do you stop?

Re: Flattening plane soles - Where do you stop?

I'm Dave Too

>2,500

Re: Flattening plane soles - Where do you stop?

Jim in Burlington On

>I've tried higher grits and now think that 400 wet/dry is the upper limit for me. Plane bottoms get scratched up quickly so why bother.

Re: Flattening plane soles - Where do you stop?

Sgian Dubh

>Denis, I'd guess I'm also in the minimalist camp. I go along with that philosophy, and if I want to simply get on and work (which is all I ever want to do) I'll go no finer than 60 or 80 grit abrasive paper.

If you think about it the striations left front to back on the sole of a plane by 80 or 60 grit abrasive paper are somewhat analogous with those planes made with grooved soles-- the intention of these was to reduce friction by making less contact with the wood.

A highly polished sole certainly looks nicer, and I've used all sorts of planes fettled to all sorts of levels from dog rough to super fine, but I've not found a plane with a really finely flattened sole to work any better or to cause any problems such as the ones you describe.

As to sharpening, for most work 800 grit ceramic stones do me. For the final wood prepping just before polishing I often sharpen to something a bit finer, in my case the fine ceramic stone, but it's not a regular thing. Slainte.

Re: Flattening plane soles - Where do you stop?

I'm Dave Too

>Sure, they get scratched, but I like the slipperiness of a plane who's sole has seen much higher grit than 400.

Re: Flattening plane soles - Where do you stop?

Dave Anderson Chester, NH

>Most of the time I've stopped at 400 grit sandpaper and then applied a couple of coats of Topcote to make the sole slide nicely. On my woodies I go to at least 600 grit and then wax the soles.

Re: Flattening plane soles - Where do you stop?

Frank D.

>Hi Denis,

Don't forget that plane soles don't cut wood, blades do, so you can't really compare the effect of the polish. I stop at around 400 or 600 (emery cloth or wet-dry) too. I agree with your friend about flatness, I think there is much to say about the advice Todd H. gave me a while back: if it works it's flat enough. Of course a smoother takes a flatter sole than a jack plane, but no need to get anal about it (which I have been known to do). My favorite old Stanley is the one I haven't fettled at all. It works so well I couldn't care less how flat the sole is. COmpare this to my first old plane, a number 7 on which I spent many, many hours of flattening; it's my least favorite old plane that I have, it just doesn't work as well as others.

Re: Flattening plane soles - Where do you stop?

ThomD

>Well first of all are we talking about polishing planes or all planes? And what was your friend talking about? Let's say a guy was actualy a really talented hand, and made reproduction highboys using period molding planes, do we imagine the molding would come off a molding plane at the equivalent of an 8000 grit special with a dead nuts sole? If not, how does one unify the flats and the moldings?

In other words is the 8000 grit plane really practical anyway? It is fun to play with because we feel like master craftsmen, but the reality is it's actually just the easiest plane to use since everything can be jigged. I want to see the 800 grit perfectly sharpened molding plane blades, or even perectly sharpened curvatures on "straight" blades. Apparenty after a lifetime, even Odate has thrown in that towel.

Even if the sole were scratching the wood, that would apply to the trailing portion only. One would have to have confidence the scratching wasn't caused by grit riding he sole like a lap. If one wants a sole to really slide, rather than polishing it at 2500, I would just use a wooden soled plane. What about the wave sole?

Blunt 240 grit followed by wire wool and metal pol

David Charlesworth

>For larger planes, I find blunt 240 grit W&Dry good enough.

However I can assure you that a heavy scrub with 0000 wire wool and chrome polish reduces friction enormously.

On small block type planes, I might go to 400grit but also use the chrome polish.

David Charlesworth

Re: Flattening plane soles - Where do you stop?

Michael Recchione

>Denis,

Chris Schwarz's column in the latest PW deals with this pretty well (or at least you can infer the answer from the article). The bottom line is that it depends on the plane and in what phase of the process it's used. There are two issues: flatness and smoothness. The tighter you want the mouth to be and the finer the shaving you hope to take, the flatter the bottom has to be. Planes that are intended to take thicker shavings can tolerate less flat bottoms.

Similarly, minute scratches made by the sole of a plane are irrelevant if the plane is being used to hog off material or dimension wood, probably with a cambered iron, and is leaving a surface that is intended to be worked further in subsequent stages or to become part of a joint. But you don't want your final finishing plane (if you have such a thing) to leave scratches.

So, a jack, scrub or fore plane doesn't need to be very smooth or flat. A jointer should be flat but doesn't need to be all that smooth. And a final finish smoother should be both smooth and flat.

How smooth is smooth? Here's my take on it (which may be totally screwy): If you move the sole of the plane in a random pattern on the sandpaper or whatever it is you use to flatten it, and you go through grits such that the scratches of the previous grit are removed by the next grit, then the remaining scratches in the sole can be no more aggressive than the last sandpaper grit you used to flatten it. In fact, taking this reasoning to a ridiculous extreme, if you were to remove the iron altogether and just use the plane sole to smooth wood, it would be at worst equivalent to sanding with that grit sandpaper. (In fact, the surface left by the sandpaper is much less aggressive than that grit of sandpaper). I never would sand wood past 400 grit (and mostly would stop at 220), so why try to get the plane sole smoother than that? And even that is overkill if all you're trying to do is avoid leaving scratches. 100 grit is probably plenty, even for a smoother.

If the issue is to make the plane glide along the wood more easily, a little swipe on an oil wick takes care of that.

The Hollows Are Our Friend

Wiley Horne--Glendora, CA

>Denis,

Very much agree with your friend regarding leaving the hollows. They are our friend. They tell us that we have not yet gone convex, and therefore the plane is still self-jigging for flat. In fact, if I don't see any hollows--especially on a wooden plane--I will usually scrape them in to make sure there is no convexity or high spots.

Wiley

Re: Flattening plane soles - Where do you stop?

Stephen in Ottawa

>Hi Denis,

The cutting edge of the blade is polished in order to get a sharp edge to cut the wood fibres. The plane's sole doesn't cut wood so doesn't need to be so highly polished. The surface of the wood will always have minute scratches, it is an organic media not polished steel. Personally I like flat soles on a smoother and jointer. Definately the area ahead of the mouth should be coplanar with the toe part and the heel. I think 400 grit is sufficient.

Regards,

- Stephen

Re: Flattening plane soles - Where do you stop?

Kevin French, Antrim NH

>Coplanar- NOW there's a word we don't hear enough of.

Thanks Stephen

Re: Flattening plane soles - Where do you stop?

I'm Dave Too

>You'll hear that plenty in a bandsaw discussion when tracking comes up :)

Re: Flattening plane soles - Where do you stop?

HC Sakman

>Hi Denis,

I use 6"x48" stationary belt sander which accomodates up to #6! I use 60G or 80G belt for very bad soles, then switch to 100G or 120G and then wax it. It works well, fast & efficient.

That's it.

Chico...

Re: Flattening plane soles - Where do you stop?

paul womack

> They used a hunk of hard Arkansas stone, and free-handed the bevel. Maybe honed it on leather. Didn't do micro-bevels, either.

Coupla' points.

In the UK Arkansas stones only became available around 1880 (and were a revalation). Prior to that (as I understand matters ;-) UK craftsman were making good furniture.

However, they WERE definitely using micro bevels (assuming by that term you mean the Leonard Lee meaning - what in the UK we call a "seconday bevel"). In the normal nomenclature you have a grinding angle (or bevel),commonly at 25 degrees) and a honing angle (or bevel) normally 5 degrees steeper.

You're right about the strop though. It's common to find these in old tool boxes. Actually, in the UK, Arkansas stones were so expensive it's still quite rare to find them s/h. The old tool boxes tend to have a well worn india/crystalon stone and a fine natural slate stone like Charnley Forest.

BugBear

Re: Flattening plane soles - Where do you stop?

paul womack

>If not, what's the finest grit that you use on your plane soles?

Judging by your question, you're in imminent danger of confusing "surface quality" and "flatness".

A plane sole flat to +- 0.0005 (1/2 thou) could have a texture to that scale as well. This plane would, by any standard, be extremely flat, but you might consider it "rough"

BugBear

Re: bugbear's obsession...

paul womack

>As some of you know, BTW, I don't use the grit-on-glass approach to flatten planes at all. I find it slow and inaccurate, especially on larger planes (*)

I do it ... my way !

BugBear

(*) details available on request.

Re: Flattening plane soles - Where do you stop?

Kevin French, Antrim NH

>Don't read much on that side of the house any more.

Re: Stop???

Dean in Burlington

>Stop at the local LN dealer and buy a real plane and spend your time working wood...not metal :)

Wax is your friend.

Paul Kierstead

>