What's the secret starting a dovetail saw?

Re: What's the secret starting a dovetail saw?

Sgian Dubh

>Bob, you'll no doubt read many opinions on this one, but for most of the learners I have to deal with that have this problem they generally apply too much downward pressure on the first stroke or two.

Also many of them find that if they angle the saw so that the intended first cut of the kerf is at the corner nearest to them that this results in the corner of the wood dropping between two teeth which jams the saw.

There are certainly different approaches to getting the saw going in the first place, but probably what will help most is learning how to hold the saw almost completely off the wood whilst you make the first two or three forward pushes to establish the kerf.

With your non sawing hand gripping the wood you can use the thumb of this hand to support the blade plate and guide the teeth to the line.

It can also help to very lightly drag the saw backwards only for two or three strokes to get started. For reasons mysterious to me (and I've been whacking wood for a living for over thirty years now) this long established trick has recently become frowned upon by many but, importantly, it's often helpful particularly for inexperienced woodworkers because it works.

The knack will come with practice. Slainte.

Re: What's the secret starting a dovetail saw?

R.J.Whelan (Eastern Sierra, CA)

>Bob ... you probably have this experience most often in softer material (right?).

I've never used an Adria, but have heard they are the equivalent of a LN - they are so sharp they will dig into soft endgrain if you put any downward pressure on the saw.

I always start my cuts (regardless of wood species) against my thumb - this usually works. If the saw digs in you will have to take one or two back strokes to smooth the divots and allow the saw to start cutting without bouncing around.

I think there is also a "muscle memory" function involved - if I haven't use the saw in a while, the first couple of cuts might be hard to start, but after I have a "feel" for the saw again the problem goes away. One of the things I do in this situation is to take a practice cut, or two, well into the waste side of the line.

Good luck ... rj

Re: What's the secret starting a dovetail saw?

ThomD

>One thing I do is start the saw square to the top so both sides are equaly engaged. I start the saw as shallow as possible, so it doesn't hang on the one hand (too few teeth in the cut), or skate (too many in the cut). If i am sawing the tails I try to work the cut out to the maximum width as soon as possible, and with minimal penetration, say half a tooth. Once some kind of track is there, I correct the angle for the tail pitch, and work on down. I try to let the saw do the cutting. This works fine in cherry and maple.

Adria saws

Adam Cherubini

>Adria files really close to zero rake. Low rake saws are harder to start than those with more rake. So LN customers talk about how "smooth" the saw cuts. I'm convinced "smooth"= high pitch and high rake. Adria should be hip to this (as should LN).

I recommend sawing the near corner out and keeping a very light grip on the saw and holding that toe up to just kiss across the wood. No way can you start a saw like this on end grain. (of course you can- but its pretty tricky- especially for a beginner).

On the upshot, this Adria will saw faster than a LN especially in softwood like drawer sides when you get your technique sorted out.

Adam

Break in period

Jim in Burlington On

>It seems to me with a new saw they seem to catch more when you first start sawing with them. That said I like to use the back of my thumb(knuckle part) as a guild and hold the saw very lightly.

Re: What's the secret starting a dovetail saw?

Garrett in Victoria

>How about a small chisel indent, bevel toward the waste, as a starting line that should hold the saw until it's kerg is set?

Cheers, Garrett

Re: What's the secret starting a dovetail saw?

les winter

>I went through this a few months ago when I was making poplar drawer sides with a new LN dovetail saw. I increased the negative rake to 8 degrees. It's not difficult to do with a file. In the case of the LN, the manufacturer will fix it for you for $15 if you are hesitant about taking a file your nice saw. I'm sure a call to Adria will provide a similar offer. More negative rake = easier starting but slower cutting.

good luck.

Les

Re: Break in period

paul womack

>It seems to me with a new saw they seem to catch more when you first start sawing with them

Yes. Jeff Gorman, a woodworker of massive experience both as craftsman and teacher, recommends (gasp) a slightly blunt saw - easier to start, and cutting easily fast enough (like - who has a problem with the LABOUR of cutting DTs ?)

Adam's notion of a less steep rake angle is (roughly speaking) equivalent.

BugBear

Re: What's the secret starting a dovetail saw?

paul womack

>....new LN dovetail saw. I increased the negative rake to 8 degrees. I

That's a very small change. IIRC the factory rake is already 5 degrees.

BugBear

Re: What's the secret starting a dovetail saw?

Bob Fawcett

>Thanks everyone.

I have noticed that the less hard I try, the easier it is. There also seems to be some magic in the wrist. If I relax and let my hand "flow" with the shape of the handle, it starts.

The wood I am using is mahogany. It is on the softer side for mahogany. I think I may try a piece of harder wood.

Re: What's the secret starting a dovetail saw?

paul womack

>I have noticed that the less hard I try, the easier it is.

Yeah. I suggest trying "just sawing" the timber. Make a large number of cuts in the end of a piece of scrap.

Say 20 cuts in a 6 inch board. Concentrate on "just sawing"

Then saw off the end.

Then make another 20, trying to start roughly on a line, in addition to "sawing"

Then saw off the end.

Etc.

It's helpful (and easier) to practise the separate skills involved before putting it all together.

BugBear

Re: What's the secret starting a dovetail saw?

les winter

>Yes it is a small change. But that's all it took on my LN to solve my problem. Maybe I will return to a steeper angle later.

lw

Re: What's the secret starting a dovetail saw?

Paul in NJ

>I have a hard time trying to start my dovetail and tenon saws on a corner to cut both the vertical and horizontal lines. With a light touch it is easier to start the first stroke on the horizontal and then gradually drop the handle to cut both. I have been thinking of filing some progressive rake into the first couple of inches of my saws to see if it will make a difference in starting those cuts.

Paul Dzioba

Sawing = zen

Bill Houghton, Sebastopol, CA, gettin' soggy

>Yes. Sawing is one of those processes that teaches detachment and trusting the tool. The only analogous activity I can mention on a family forum like this is those moments in playing music where you stop being someone playing an instrument and become the music.

Re: Sawing = zen

Dan Donaldson

>I can identify with the music part. I played bass semi pro in a Bluegrass band for 7 or 8 years. Some nights you just tried to get through it. Other times, things would be really cooking and I couldn't miss a lick if I tried. I have listened to tapes of some of those nights and can't believe some of the things that I came up with. (and got away with;-))