japanese hand plane question

Re: japanese hand plane question

Wiley Horne--Glendora, CA

>Hi Frank,

Here's an overview. The main blade should be held in the abutments tightly enough so that the plane is operable and will take fine shavings without the chipbreaker (subblade) installed. In other words, the subblade's function is not to hold the main blade in the plane, but rather to pretension the main blade. The subblade pressure should be set so that you can plane with or against the grain effectively--planing against the grain is the test of the subblade pressure.

The subblade should be exactly the width of the main blade at the edge. And you want it set REALLY close. The best way I've heard it said is by Jim Blauvelt over at the Hiraide forum: To paraphrase, he said you want it so close that if it were any closer, it would be doing the cutting. Well, it's hard to adjust it that close because it's hard to see that well what you're doing. But way tighter than 1/32".

Wiley

Oh and

Wiley Horne--Glendora, CA

>sharpen the subblade at a higher angle than the main blade, say, 55 degrees. It should be pretty sharp. And undercut the inside edge so that the subblade meets the main blade on a knife edge. That way, you get a lot of psi on the main blade, but without having to make the subblade so tight under the wedge that it's making the bottom of the dai bulge.

Wiley

Re: japanese hand plane question

ThomD

>I did a plane building seminar at Hirade. Been building Japanese planes for about 25 years, but that seminar really helped. Jim was there for the first day I think, and the overall impression I got there was not to bother with the sub-blade at all. Seemed like a lot of guys weren't using it. And while we were shown how to install the pin, we didn't use our SBs for the planing contest. I didn't tend to use them much either, so that was reassuring. On the other hand I believe part of the issue was to get people focused on the basics.

Anyway, the way I set them. Is basically what WH said, except I set them till the shaving flies up vertical and lies down in the path of the plane, limp like a sheet of toilet paper. That doesn't happen all the time, but it is measure of what the sweet spot can be.

If you read what western "expert" planers do with their finishing planes, it tends to be about getting the finest shavings off the hardest to plane surfaces, burl etc... Japanese woodwork is generally undertaken on the least trashy wood available. So the objective is a little different. In many instances the best stock wouldn't have an "against" the grain. Just something to keep in mind while penetrating the arts and mysteries. We did pay attention to the grain in the dai, both with and across grain so I am not suggesting they somehow avoid thinking about grain. But a really nice piece of POC is pretty straight, to say the least.

Re: japanese hand plane question

Manny - Livermore, CA

>Frank,

I would recommend setting the subblade aside for now and concentrate on the getting the plane working. I would (1) get the blade sharpened (2)fit the blade to the dai (sounds like you've already done that) and (3) condition the sole.

I was also at the seminar that Thom mentions. I know people that do use the subblade and others that don't. You can still get great results without it. The person that taught me rarely bothers with them. I think they are effective, but as others have said, only if it's very close to the cutting edge. I attended the plane making seminar the following year also and made a "ichi mai ganna" which is a type of plane without the subblade. It works great.

I'm about 20 - 25 minutes down the road. If you need help you're welcome to come out to Livermore. If you want to take it further you have the option of taking the Japanese Joinery class at Laney College in Oakland. The person that teaches that is the same that taught me. The class is held on Saturday mornings. I think it's closer to you that is was for me. It's not just about joinery. The beginning class covers tool selection and tuning. They cover planes, chisels, sharpening stones, etc. Then you go on to sharpening.

Hope that helps.

Manny

(Remove the ? in my email address)

it WORKED!

frank shic (walnut ck, ca)

>thanks again for the advice guys! i don't think that the chip breaker is ideally installed, but the plane is producing some fairly impressive shavings from just the iron alone i think. next step is to attach a fence to it so that i can use it like a panel plane.

Re: japanese hand plane question

ThomD

>Cheers to you Manny!

Re: japanese hand plane question

frank shic (walnut ck, ca)

>i'll have to pay you a visit one of these days, manny!

Re: japanese hand plane question

frank shic (walnut ck, ca)

>thom, how hard is it to build one of these things? i keep staring at it everytime i pick it up and think, "gee, i could build one of these..." but i'm sure that the angles are tricky to set up.