Need Advise on Jointers

Re: Need Advise on Jointers

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>The answer is "Yes", but it depends.

Would you rather plane wood or fuss with tools? What's your budget? Is price a major consideration, or bragging rights, or just getting the job done?

If you could get a #8 for the price I paid (nothing) or a L-N #7 today for the preproduction price I paid, go for it. Getting an old plane might mean you have to spend some time tuning it up and cleaning it, and replacing the blade, and it still won't work as well as a L-N. But, you may never ask it to go beyond its capabilities, and not notice the subtle difference.

A low angle jointer will be less fuss, but should do just as good a job. A LV adjustable mouth jointer will give you more versatility, at a lower price than the L-N, without more fuss to pay for that versatility.

There is another viable alternative that you didn't mention. A wooden jointer, for example from Steve Knight should joint just fine. All the adjustments that come attached to a steel jointer aren't there, but a plane hammer will do that for you.

In any case, you should try it out on your bench before buying it. See the thread on LV totes from yesterday or the day before.

One other caveat: If you suffer from the dropsies and work over a concrete floor, stay away from the old cast iron planes. A new ductile iron plane, or a wooden plane will survive the fall, but cast iron is brittle and difficult to weld back together.

Re: Need Advise on Jointers

Greg Sloop, Portland Oregon

>I've got a #7C that I picked up for around $60.

I decided on the LV BU Jointer and abandoned it.

If you want to play with it, how about this. You pay to ship it, and you're welcome to play with it for pretty much as long as you like. (How about 6 months or less... :) )

If you like it, drop me, say $50. If not, ship it back at your cost.

I'd rehab the thing, but here's my thinking. New iron and chip-breaker. Probably at least $60-80 when shipping is included. Time to fettle the thing. Add in the base cost, and it gets close to the cost of the LV BU Jointer.

The big question is, will it perform as well after all that. That I can't answer, but I doubt it. (The thin blade doesn't perform nearly as well as I'd like! And adjusting the mouth isn't any fun compared to the LV BU Jointer either...)

Anyway, my thinking was that I'd rather spend even, say an extra $100 to get the LV than ditz around with the #7. I don't get near enough time to work wood, and I hate futzing with planes to tweak them. The investment for the LV was really a no-brainer.

If you want to take me up on the offer, just email me.

Cheers,

Greg

Only last week ... *LINK*

Derek Cohen (in Perth Australia)

>I posted a review on just this topic: LV BU Jointer vs tuned Stanley #7

Below is a link to a different source than before.

Regards from Perth

Derek


LV Bevel Up Jointer Review

Re: Need Advise on Jointers

George Makowski

>Jerry, First off, I can't speak from experience with the LV or LN planes that are apparently now the performance standard most cited by contributors to this forum.

I can say something about my old #8 and my 22" woodie. The #8 was set up by my wife's grandfather to work walnut, his favorite wood. He did not level the sole, replace the blade, or do any of the things advocated today. He buit a lot of furniture with it. I since have flattened the sole which improved the performance slightly. Its performance on the woods that I use in my limited projects, on pine, cherry, walnut is very good. The panel joints it produces are well within tolerances. The woodie I flattened, squared, and remouthed. I relieved the corners of the iron. I use it more often than any other plane for surfaces and edges mostly on pine.

What I am trying to say is that I believe the older planes will do the job they were meant to do without a large investment in time or money.

As has often been said, and shows up in this thread, part of your decision depends on your own balance between interest in tool repair or maintenance and cutting wood. That said, you don't ever get the latter without the former.

Good choosing!

George in AL

Re: Need Advise on Jointers

Paul Kierstead

>The main thing is to get one in good condition, whether it be new or old. As to brands, etc....

I have a Record #7, quite cheap. New blade (actually not really necessary for jointing IMO) and totes (I hate plastic in my hand for long periods). For jointing, it works very very well.

I also have a L-N #8, not cheap. It also works very very well; insanely well, really.

I have the #7 cambered to help in jointing and the #8 straight across for glue joints, large panel flattening, etc.

I am sure the low-angle ones will also work very well.

IMO, most of the reviews tend to make very small differences into large ones (mountain out of a mole hill my mother says) and even the small ones only matter in esoteric situations. Or perhaps the readers make a lot out of the differences, hard to tell at this point.

It is all up to the money. If you have limited resources, IMO it would be better to spend a little less on a jointer and buy a good sharpening jig/stones then to blow it all on a very expensive jointer. OTOH, the LV isn't that expensive.

Re: Need Advise on Jointers

Jerry Draper - Smithville, TN

>Thanks to all of you for the input. After reading Derek's review I am sold on the LV BU jointer. I prefer to spend my time using the plane rather than tuning an old one.

Re: Need Advise on Jointers

Adam Cherubini

>I prefer to spend my time using the plane rather than tuning an old one.

People say this a lot around here and it rarely raises any hackles. In my experience, its a platitude that sounds better than it really is.

If you want to work wood by hand, tuning planes is inevitable. I admit to having lapped exactly one metal plane's sole (my S#4). In retrospect, it was probably a waste of time. But it was also an important part of my education (buying a new plane and regretting it may be an important part of yours).

So instead, I offer the following: If you are trying to decide between old and new, the decision is more along the lines: "Do I want to take that class now or next year".

Its been a while since I shopped for a metal plane. A couple years ago you could buy any of the basic Bailey pattern planes (S#4-8) for $25. Any of these planes might need as much as 2 hours work, but not typically more, some dramatically less, and NO new parts. Without exception the tools and skills required to restore are required to sharpen a new plane as well.

I certainly agree with Paul. Manufacturers are adding features we don't need, making fair comparisons (not referring to Derek's review, BTW) irrelevant. As long as you stay in the box, any Stanley "bench" plane will work fine.

So my advice is to concentrate on your education, take your classes now, and save your money until you know exactly what you want and need. Chances are, in a few year's time, you'll have a shop full of tools that cost very little, that you know how to use, and that work just fine.

Adam

Re: Need Advise on Jointers

Jerry Draper - Smithville, TN

>Adam, thanks for the advise. I have two old planes that I bought and refurbished. I have two problems buying old planes. First, they are hard to find in my area and I don't have the time to prospect every weekend. Second, I don't know enough to evaluate their condition and establish a fair price. BTW I hate the ebay process so that is not an option. Any other suggestions would be welcome.

Another consideration...

Jonathan Kaplan (OR)

>I have an old #8 that I barely tuned, and it is fine for what I do with it. With the (old, original, and not very good) blade reasonably newly sharpened, it joints just fine. And even with a bit of wear, the blade is fine for flattening (NOT smoothing) panels. After the panel is flat, my fairly well tuned LN #4, or, for really nasty woods, my high-angle krenov-style woodie, are good for smoothing.

Now, if money were no object, sure, the new LV BUJs look great, as do the LN 7 and 8s, and I'm sure they work better... But I'm not sure that for what I use a jointer for, they would be all that much better. OTOH, I really like the the idea of the Veritas BU family of planes, and, for those of not skilled at finding bargains, the BUJ is likely only about twice as much as an old #7 or 8...

Hmm... I guess this wasn't really helpful, was it? :)

jk

Re: Need Advise on Jointers

ThomD

>Who's the guy, someone help me, who sells the old planes with the bottom surface ground?

I agree with Adam, pretty much parallels my experience.

I think if you're flush the new plane can be a valid option, but the time spent buying (forget earning), or the time spent tunning pretty much match the time spend building your own woodie. Two hours is all it takes, less actually, depending on any handle carving. The problem with making planes is that one often wants them at a time in one's career, when one doesn't have the gear to make them efficiently. And to be honest, I've been looking for the perfect pircr of wood for my current jointer project for quite a while. Lots of beech grows around here, but nobody seems to cut it down for anythign other than firewood.

In that case

Adam Cherubini

>Jerry,

(I have neither plane) If you really wanted a jointer, I would have to choose the LN only because its iron is 3/8" wider than the LV! (Yes 3/8") Here's why:

People confuse jointers with try planes. Moxon probably did. For a proper jointer- i.e. a plane that makes edge joints, you want the longest plane you can manage. LV's is shorter but its mouth position makes its functional equivalent Bailey length longer than its actual length. Derek or LV should do the math and give us a number. Whether it is longer or shorter than a #8 is what I would want to know.

For just any old edge, a try plane will usually suffice. You only really need a precise straight edge when you are making joints. A typical joint operation is match planing- two boards are laid face to face and planed straight together. Derek fails to mention that the #8's blade with is 2-5/8" wide. That's wide enough to match plane 6/4 s stock. The LV's 2-1/4" cut really isn't wide enough for this operation with this stock. I know it doesn't sound like much of a difference, but the LV will be limited to 5/4s. 5/4 rough is probably out of the question. Could well be that stock is different in Canada (is it?) so this may not have come up at LV

In truth, I'd say 2-5/8 is cutting it close, but that's stanley for you. They made ham fisted revisions to planes they didn't bother to understand and LN has dutifully copied them. My wooden jointer has a 2-7/8" iron; sufficient for 6/4 rough stock. 6/4 is about the thickest lumber I ever see edge jointed.

So my NEVER HAVING USED THE PLANES review would be that the LN comes closer to doing the work I need the plane to do. The reviews and the features of the LV plane suggest to me the tool would make a so-so jointer, but an outstanding try plane. So my suggestion is that LV market this plane to its strengths. For those of you who confuse jointers and try planes, the LV seems like an excellent choice, albeit unwitting one.

In summation:

JOINTER= long sole, wide straight blade, edge joinery only

TRY PLANE= longish plane, curved iron for face work and non-mating edge work.

Somebody ought to write an article about this stuff! Anyway, that's my free advice and its worrth what you paid for it.

Adam

Re: Need Advise on Jointers

Stephen Kirk

>Man, i just cut up some decent beech logs for firewood. A lot of logs, actually. I still have a good number of rounds in the 12-18" range, perhaps I'll see if any of them can yield some usable wood. This all came from the beech tops.

Re: Need Advise on Jointers

ThomD

>I mean it doesn't have to be beech, I rather like a maple plane too (though with prices where they are free maple is tight too. But it does bug me that I see lots of beech in the run of a year, but hardly any lumber. I get access to some free self felled wood, and it is nice stuff, but never Beech.

Re: In that case

ThomD

>You're right about width, a 3" jointer plane blade will have to go on my next heat treating list. I'm going to have even greater trouble finding the right size of beech!