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applying moldings to toolbox

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applying moldings to toolbox

#1

applying moldings to toolbox

Jamey Amrine

>I am building a tool chest made with a dovetailed pine carcase, milk painted, and will be applying natural walnut moldings. I was warned about the difficulty in masking for milk paint, so I did the painting first and decided I would attach the moldings with nails. I will be putting a coat of BLO on the entire piece.

First, would it be prudent to apply the BLO to all parts and then nail on the moldings, and if so, should the backside of the molding get the finish too?

Second, I am using cut nails from Tremont for the moldings. Should a single row of nails suffice, or should I do an upper and lower row? The moldings are approximately 3-1/2" tall.

Finally, I haven't attached any kind of handles to the end of the chest yet. Can the handles be applied with clinched nails, and if so, what kind of shearing strength can I expect from a given sized nail? I.e. if I use 4 nails to hold on an iron handle with a backing plate, what kind of weight can I expect the chest to stand up to?

I don't have any progress photos except for one of the lid, which is a painted pine panel floating in a walnut frame. The walnut is from my grandfather's stash and is believed to have been cut from my great-grandfather's farm. I still have some smooth-planing to do to the walnut before I glue this up (it is simply dry-fit in the picture).

Thanks.


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Re: applying moldings to toolbox

#2

Re: applying moldings to toolbox

George Makowski

>Jamey, Gald to see someone else carefully using stahed old walnut. I have some of that and some cherry that I piece out for special projects.

Some ideas about your techniocal questions:

1. The shear strength of stout clinched nails with a backing plate? Very high. To shear off the handles you would have to either break the shafts of the nails or damage the wood enough to loosen the hold of the nails.

2. BLO over milk paint? I don't know much about finishing, but it doesn't sound like a good idea to me and it doesn't match anything I have read about finishing. BLO on its own gives a tack free finish on raw or stained wood with repeated rubbing and applications. Even then, some people use it with a drier additive of some kind. I have also painted it on raw wood cut 1:1 with turpentine (takes a long time to dry unless rubbed in). Otherwise BLO can leave a gummy or worse crinkled gummy surface. If you want to heighten the gloss of the paint maybe a wax would work or an oil based paint. You could also opt for a Shaker style colored oil-based wash.

Good luck with your project!

George in AL

Re: applying moldings to toolbox

#3

Re: applying moldings to toolbox

Jamey Amrine

>OK, How about a beeswax finish on the painted bit, and the BLO on the walnut? If I go this route, how does one best apply the beeswax? Is it warmed and rubbed in with a cloth?

I chose BLO because I figured it would give a nice natural and warm finish to the walnut. Another option on the walnut is TruOil (which I am sure is just a trade name for some sort of varnish recipe). I used TruOil on my last banjo which was made primarily from walnut and it looks outstanding. It was also really easy to apply and only took two coats.

Again, the question comes up of whether I finish both sides of the moldings and then nail them on, or only apply to the exposed faces?

Thanks again.

Re: applying moldings to toolbox

#4

Re: applying moldings to toolbox

Dean J in MN

>

2. BLO over milk paint? I don't know much about finishing, but it doesn't sound like a good idea to me and it doesn't match anything I have read about finishing.

BLO over milk paint is recommended, even needed if you don't want your milk paint to spot. Milk paint of really fun stuff, and has a look that can't be matched.

My chest has blo over milk paint.

-Dean


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Re: applying moldings to toolbox

#5

Re: applying moldings to toolbox

David Turner

>Michael Dunbar used BLO over milk paint for decades on his Windsor chairs. He has switched lately and is now using Minwax Antique oil. I have used BLO, Minwax Antique oil, and Watco oil over milk paint successfully and without problems. David

Re: applying moldings to toolbox

#6

Re: "Sanding" wood with pumice stones... *LINK*

Alan Bierbaum, near Denver, CO

>BLO over milk paint is the "normal" way of using milk paint. It protects the paint from for water spots and really Brings out the color of the milk paint. The link below to my shop shot of Adam's Challenge shows the difference.

Alan


Shop Shot 685

Re: applying moldings to toolbox

#7

Re: applying moldings to toolbox

George Makowski

>Dean, Thanks for the correction. Now I know better. By the way, great chest!

Jamey, I obviously got it wrong about BLO on milk paint, but I can tell you true about BLO on walnut from experience with gunstocks and duck calls. If you do a really good job preparing the surface rubbed BLO gives a wonderful finish that improves everytime you polish it. It also forms a hard rind on the finished piece that protects it. The down sides are surface preparation, intense rubbing in of oil over a period of time followed by periodic renewals of the finish, and darkening of the wood.

Bee's wax can be crayoned on and handrubbed in. On walnut it has the advantage of filling the pores. It can also be applied as a blend with oils to soften it.

Re: applying moldings to toolbox

#8

Re: Careful who you say that to George!

Rob in Kansas

>I have a friend from college that I fixed a cedar chest for who just happened to be a rather attractive female. I stoped by her office one day to report on my progess. She was on the phone so her boss asked if I wanted to leave a message...Well without even thinking I said to tell her her chest was looking pretty good. As soon as I saw his face I knew it was not the best way to say it!

Rob

Re: applying moldings to toolbox

#9

Re: Careful who you say that to George!

George Makowski

>Rob, Thanks for the humor. A good laugh is nice after making a dumb statement in front of your e-woodworking pals and being rapidly corrected. I need to read up on milk paint.

It makes me wonder how many other ways we could mis-state things talking about tools and woodwork along the lines of the famous line from "Young Frankenstein".

George in AL

Re: applying moldings to toolbox

#10

Moved it for you ;-) DD

Alan Bierbaum, near Denver, CO

>

Re: applying moldings to toolbox

#11

Re: "Sanding" wood with pumice stones...

Jamey Amrine

>Well, that settles that. I am back to BLO. I had chosen it because I was sure I had heard somewhere that it is a good finish over milk paint.

Still no sign of my Tremont cut nails today, so I guess I will start cutting the upper moldings.

Re: applying moldings to toolbox

#12

Re: applying moldings to toolbox

Mark Harrison -- in Sydney, Australia

>Some years back, Mike Dunbar wrote an article on using milk paint. His recommendation at the time was to use BLO over milk paint. He has since recanted on this and now suggests danish oil on top of milk paint.

Re: applying moldings to toolbox

#13

Re: Careful who you say that to George!

Rob in Kansas

>Hey I'm the king of mis-worded comments! I'm sure I could come up with some without even trying! They always seem to come out differently than what I had intended. To make things worse the above comment was at a conservative, religious college. Not a Bob Jones mind you but boy did my face turn red!

I haven�t used any milk paint at all yet, but hope to soon. I�ll give the BLO/Danish oil a try.

Re: applying moldings to toolbox

#14

moldings on tool chest

Clay C in Miami

>Ok, now that you've settled the BLO-over-milk-paint is good issue, on the original questions ...

I can't think of any reason that would militate toward or against putting BLO on the back side of the moldings - it does take a long time to fully cure (maybe 3 weeks), but if it's not fully cured on the back when you apply them, and thus sticks, what's it matter? I'd say do whatever's easiest - certainly don't bother to tape off the backs, but don't spend time getting a full rubbed-in coat on them either. I would do all the finishing that's possible before assembly, just to keep from having to deal with finish in the corners.

As to nailing, I think one row of nails is enough - the moldings aren't structural, and in the originals they certainly would not have wasted a single (expensive, store-bought) nail where it wasn't needed.

We'll want more pics, of course!

Clay

Re: applying moldings to toolbox

#15

Re: applying moldings to toolbox

Adam Cherubini

>I can only say how I did mine-

As for milk paint, I like to rub it out dry until the tooth is gone and it becomes smooth. A rag will work. A rag with loose pumice works better, but I use a green scotch brite pad (shh don�t tell anybody). If any amount of black is mixed in with the paint, the rubbing will produce a beautiful shiny luster. That can be nice on its own. But more often than not, I add BLO over the paint. This usually darkens and brings out other, sometimes unexpected colors. You need to test this.

I don�t have an upper molding, but I think these were there for strength. So let�s just say the carcass is dovetailed together. Because the handles want to pull the sides off the chest, I put my tails on the front and back. Okay? To keep the front and back from coming off, I dovetailed my moldings together and put their tails on the sides. With the dovetails really hold the moldings flat and together, all the nails need to do is keep the moldings from sliding up or down. In that case a single row of a few nails will suffice. If you are nailing these moldings on like they are decorative, you have to reconsider my rationale. And I think that would be a mistake, BTW.

Shear strength of nails isn�t the problem. The problem lies with the two bottom nails that see tension. Clinched nails can take some tension. Not sure I would go that route. From what I can see you�ve got a late 19th c style chest and it sounds like you are using 19th c hardware with early 18th c fasteners. Why not just use screws? Dean�s chest�s handles look like Seaton�s. Those long cleats are an excellent design. On the Seaton chest, those cleats are held on with screws. The heads are on the inside of the chest, countersunk or counter-bored into the case sides, and then stopped up with putty. The handles on my chest go front to back (not a good design, but it is an accurate early design). These are likewise held on with screws (like Seaton�s). But I made full depth runners for my till, so they fastener thru a good 1-1/2� thick case. Full, that chest weighs several hundred pounds, so I move it infrequently. Not sure how well those handles would hold up if I were moving that monster frequently.

I wrote something a while back about toolchests and building mine. I should try to dig that up. Jay Gaynor from Williamsburg helped me with it. I examined a bunch of 19th c chests. These are fairly well thought out items (or at least the surviving examples). There are very very few surviving 18th c chests and no two seem to be alike. I tried to use the differences between 19th c chests and 18th c chests to establish typical 18th c features. Of course I ignored my research/observations and did whatever I wanted to in the end, which I�m disappointed with now.

Adam

Re: applying moldings to toolbox

#16

Re: applying moldings to toolbox

Frank D. in Montreal

>You can use tung oil too, it doesn't yellow as much. Shellac is good too, but more fragile.

BTW, it's easy to mix your own milk paint but pigments can be expensive so you have to use it often enough for it to come out cheaper.

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