rabbet technique

Re: rabbet technique

Jack Guzman from Maine

>If it works for you there's nothing wrong with it.I found that sometimes I have to stop thinking about what is the "right way" to do things and improvise.This is particularly hard for someone like me who is just learning how to do everything.Alot of times after I break the rules and do it in what I think is an unusual method I find out that it isn't new after all and it has been done this way for years.---Jack

Rabbet or fillester?

Adam Cherubini

>I...sawed down the end (grain?) and across the grain with a back saw

Are we talking about rabbets or fillesters (rabbets oriented across the grain).

If we are talking about a fillester, I can see why you wouldn't want to use your #78. And yes, I can think of several reasons why the approach you took isn't a great idea. Before we get to that, there similarly several reasons why you wouldn't saw out a rabbet in a cabinetshop.

In general, rabbets and fillesters are related to an edge, both in terms of its shoulder and depth. Using a saw to create these features instantly and permanently removes this relationship, forcing you to use up your skill to create a decent feature (I only have so much skill to use each day and I try to spend it wisely). I sometimes make rabbets with a chisel which is a similar methodology.

I recommend getting yourself a real rabbet plane with a wide open mouth. Rabbets are more akin to scrubs than smoothers. No way can you saw a rabbet as fast as you can plane one with a good rabbet plane.

Now if you are talking about sawing fillesters, I can see why you would use this approach. No rabbet plane is going to do a good job of this. The answer here is the PURCHASE OF AN ADDITIONAL TOOL. That's right! You heard me correctly. In fact, I presume to speak for all of us on this matter. Your actual creation of this feature permits you to purchase a moving fillester plane (of a variety of your choosing).

Here's why you don't want to saw these things. Sometimes you need a long one. Using your back saw like a stair saw is a real drag. Also, wood tends to cup in this direction. You can often clamp this cup out without resorting to machining it away (which doesn't fix the problem in the long run anyway) Its easier to plane the clamped board than to saw it in two planes (faces).

I could go on- maybe somebody else will, but fillesters are to be avoided whenever possible. When encountered, I've found it best not to mess around with them. A fillester plane (tho slower than a rabbet) is the best way to create these features.

Adam

Yes

Wiley Horne--Glendora, CA

>I'd much rather saw than plane, particularly on shorter rebates of a foot or less. After all, tenon cheeks are a sort of rebate.

Another frequent example is rebating the inside edge of drawer sides by a little bit at the scribe line. I've seen pictures of Mr. Cosman doing this with an LN140, but I like to saw em.

You can detail the sawcuts with a rebate or shoulder plane as needed.

Wiley

Example *LINK*

Wiley Horne--Glendora, CA

>The link below gives an example. In Adam's terms, this is sawing a fillet, as would be the tenon cheek. It takes one rip and one crosscut. Sawing a long grain rebate would require two rips.

In the link below, the pictures are in sequence, and you can click on the photo to enlarge.

Wiley


Sawing a fillet

Popular woodworking

Jim in Burlington On

>After seeing the tool box made that way in Popular woodworking by Don Webber I tried it out. I did use the table saw as he did and it worked very well. I do use a Record 0778 which is alot more usefull than the stanley your using.

Re: Rabbet or fillester?

George Makowski

>Adam, I have a question of terminology for you. I may have misunderstood my reading.

In the late ninetenth to early twentieth century woodworking manuals I frequently refer to, a fillester is a rabbet cut on the edge of the board opposite from where you stand. Hence a plane that can cut a rabbet, on the near edge, and a fillester, working on the far edge, if its arms are long enough or the fence can be put on the other side as on some metal planes.

A gain cut in the end grain is a rabbet, isn't it, not a fillester?

By the way, I agree with you that a rabbet on the end grain is easily cut either with a dedicated plane with spur. In my limited experience, I have also found that sawing the shoulder and then removing the waste by chisel and plane works well.

George in AL

Re: Rabbet or fillester?

chichi

>Adam,

I believe I was referring to a rabbet rather than fillester. I was working cross grain at the end of a 4" board. One rip and one cross grain cut, like the shoulder and cheek on one side of a tenon.

I have a woodie with a skew blade, but no fence about 1" wide. Is that the proper tool to which you refer?

The 78 has a fence and depth stop. It works good but there is always a little fussing. I thought for a rabbet that is hidden in the groove in a drawer, the sawing method was quick and easy.

I did not entirely follow your answer.I watched Woodright this Sat. and the guests made beautiful desks. To make a dado,they scribe the lines, saw inside, chisel out the waste ,clean the bottom with a router plane and pare to the line to get a crisp wall and bottom. I got the saw idea from their method for dado's. Please add your insight. Thanks to all who responded.

Bob

Re: Rabbet or fillester?

Adam Cherubini

>Bob and George,

I could be wrong, but I think a fillester is cross grain rabbet. So Bob, I think you are talking about a fillester and not a rabbet. The #78 is okay for rabbets (though you don't need the nicker- but its adjustable and either way...) but it lacks a skewed blade that really comes in handy for cross grain work (as I'm sure you found out). Pretty sure Stanley made a #78 with a skewed blade (#278?). Regardless of what the number is, that plane is a fillester plane. There is a wooden version called a moving or universal fillester plane. Like the metal version, it features a skewed blade, nicker iron, and adjustable fence.

If this joint is rare for you, its fine to use a saw and a chisel. Ditto for everything. With a saw and a chisel you can make every joint. So all the other tools are just a matter of convenience. But if you are interested in taking on hand tool projects, I recommend a few fitting planes for these operations that really aren't easy with a saw and chisel. At a minimum a skewed rabbet plane is helpful. (Doesn't LV or LN make a skewed block plane with a fence?). Otherwise I recommend all four planes for the four basic joints:

A rabbet plane (for rabbets) (square blade for work with the grain)

A plow plane for long grain grooves (you just need a couple irons)

A dado plane for cross grain grooves (aka dadoes)

and a moving fillester for cross grain rabbets (which I think are called fillesters)

One more thing:

I have made dadoes and long sliding dovetails with a back saw, chisels and OWT router. Truth be told, I'm not that good with my hands. I suspect a really good craftsman can make good quick work out of this. I cannot. I rely on standardized processes and the right tool for the job. So that's why I recommend what I recommend. My brother can cut a sliding dovetail with nothing but a dull pocket knife. He doesn't read my articles or care about the techniques I use. So when we talk about these sorts of things, this is where I'm coming from.

Adam

Re: Rabbet or fillester?

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>Doesn't LV or LN make a skewed block plane with a fence?

Yes, Lie-Nielsen makes such a plane. In fact, they make two, one left handed and one right handed. They call it a #140, after the Stanley, which is superficially resembles, which was in turn modeled after the MF #7, IIRC.

Unlike its predecesors, It comes with a removable fence. It also has an auxiliary side plate, which stiffens it for use as a regular block plane. You can get it with a nicker for cutting end grain (for fillesters). A pair is also very useful for raising panels, since it is only practical to plane in one direction on fielded panels with these, since the blade is exposed on only one side. We all know that planing with the grain makes a difference in surface quality on panels, hence the need for a pair. It also works well for trimming tenon cheeks.

Skew Block Planes

This is a very flexible pair of planes that do many jobs.

I like tools that do more than one task well, because I never know what I'm going to be working on next. I guess it would be different if I were building the same thing over and over again, day in and day out. In that case, a dedicated tool, specifically set up for each function would make more sense.