This is what you've helped me with.

Re: This is what you've helped me with.

Steve Kubien

>That's really nice Joe. I especially like the 'inlay' work on the door. :) Those DT's look plenty fine from where I am sitting.

Great stuff!!!

Steve Kubien

Re: This is what you've helped me with.

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>Did Adam tell you how to do those dovetails? :^J

In the William (no relation) and Mary period, carcases were often joined with the tails in the sides and the pins in the top and bottom, but later, beginning with Queen Anne, the tails were cut in the top and bottom, and the pins were cut in the sides. I don't think I have a good reason why the change came about, and yours look just fine the way they are. They definitely "celebrate" the joinery.

Maybe it had something to do with ease of layout of large cases with long boards? Any clues, anyone?

The latest issue of Pop Woodworking, #151, in the pull out center section, shows you how to joint and plane a board that is wider than your jointer. I've been using this method for years, and every so often post it on the Message board, but this is the first time I've seen it in print. Please note that I'm not encouraging you to do any blacksliding, but as long as you have the jointer, you should know how to get the most out of it.

Nice work can't wait till its finished.

Jim in Burlington On

>

About those dovetails, Wm...

Ellis Walentine

>I thought that the tails were on the top and bottom pieces so that they wouldn't be seen. In fact, if moldings were not planned, they were often half-blind.

Personally, I like to regard each design problem relative to the particular situation. In this case, the dovetails seem to be correct because they help will the case resist gravity's tendency to pull it apart when either suspended from the top or bottom, as with a hidden cleat, or when loaded up with whatever. Case pieces, where the box is supported by a system of legs or a plinth (or a lower case), don't have to worry about gravity, so the dovetails can be used to hold the sides of the case together.

Does this sound reasonable?

Ellis

Re: About those dovetails, Wm...

Joe in a Cleveland suburb

>Thanks Ellis.

the case resist gravity's tendency to pull it apart when either suspended from the top or bottom

That's pretty much what I was thinking. Plus, I just wanted to see them and I've seen pictures of stuff C.Becksvort has done like that. Don't know if it's right or wrong, it's just the way I wanted to do it.

Forever learning...

Joe

Re: About those dovetails, Wm...

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>You're right on the money, Ellis. I had thought about that, too. There's nothing wrong with the way Joe did them. When I saw them, I immediately realized that it would be an advantage for a hanging cabinet, especially if/when the glue eventually failed. It just looked unusual, and definitely worthy of comment. I thought a historical perspective (tradition vs. common sense, perhaps?) would be interesting, especially if it gets Adam involved in the discussion.

Re: About those dovetails, Wm...

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>Joe, I've another question or comment. It appears that the door is still in mock-up stage, so I'm hoping it's not too late to discuss it. Are your shelves adjustable, or fixed? (No, that's not the real question. It's just a lead-in.)

Often, the muntins in glass doors are laid out so that they hide the shelf fronts. With adjustable shelves, that is really, really difficult, of course, and the furniture designer has to guess where the customer is most likely to position the adjustable shelves. With a small cabinet and lots of shelves, like yours, you have an even bigger problem, since 3x3 panes would look very unusual, as they would take a lot more work, and since getting glass big enough for 2x2 panes in that size is, and never has been, a problem.

OK, it's not really a question, and even as a rule of thumb, it's not something I think James Krenov ever paid any attention to. Of course, Krenov always built the doors first, and then built a cabinet to match.

Re: About those dovetails, Wm...

Alan Bierbaum, near Denver, CO

>"Personally, I like to regard each design problem relative to the particular situation. In this case, the dovetails seem to be correct because they help will the case resist gravity's tendency to pull it apart when either suspended from the top or bottom, as with a hidden cleat, or when loaded up with whatever. .................

Does this sound reasonable? "

Sound completely correct to me. When I built my hand tool wall cabinet; I did it the same way (bottom supports some heavy [expensive] planes).

I just looked through my Shaker books and can not find an example either way.

Alan

Re: About those dovetails, Wm...

Joe in a Cleveland Suburb

>Joe, I've another question or comment. It appears that the door is still in mock-up stage, so I'm hoping it's not too late to discuss it. Are your shelves adjustable, or fixed? (No, that's not the real question. It's just a lead-in.)

William, they are fixed. The glass door was an afterthought. I am going to make a couple different cardboard mock ups to see what I like (or my wife actually) best. I may just end up with my solid panel I already started.

Often, the muntins in glass doors are laid out so that they hide the shelf fronts.

I know. And if I were to make it with six panels, I'm afraid the panels will be too small. If you look at the front view shot below and imagine 6 panels, I think it might look wrong. Maybe it wouldn't look to odd with 4 panels. A mock up will help me

decide. This is also being discussed in the regular message board.

I appreciate everybody's comments,

Joe

Re: About those dovetails, Wm...

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>OK, I looked at all the responses over on the main message forum, and I'll offer my own 2¢ opinions.

First, the bottom rail should be wider than the top rail and stiles. Several others offered the same advise. Do not be afraid to make one or several more cardboard mockups. They will tell you a lot more about what looks right to you than all the verbal advise in the world.

I think the door is too heavy. Instead of widening the bottom rail, it would look better if you narrowed the muntins, the top rail and the stiles.

Some more ideas, for your consideration: Have you considered six panels with beveled glass panes, or maybe a single stained glass or pâte de verre (fused glass) panel? I mention these only because in this part of the world, there are many artists who work in glass, and I have been seriously considering colaborative projects with one or more of them. You might have to go as far as Pittsburg to find what you are looking for, however.

Thanks William....

Joe in a Cleveland Suburb

>I appreciate your comments (and everybody's). I'll let you know what I come up with.

I'll do a couple more mock ups.

Joe

Re: About those dovetails, Wm...

HC Sakman

>I agree about the bottom rail being wider and top rail being narrower. 1/4"~3/8" for both, or narrow the muntins if possible.

Chico...

BTW, dt's look great!

HC Sakman

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