What do you think of Cecil Pierce's method for DTs

I once made

Bill Houghton, Sebastopol, CA

>a miter block for cutting 1/4" section picture frame stock that used a hacksaw as the saw. Worked a treat; you'd have thought the cuts were done with some kind of cold laser.

The picture frame stock was for framing a little Madeleine Engelbreit (sp?) card as a fridge magnet for LOML. Still up on the fridge.

Re: What do you think of Cecil Pierce's method for

Norman (Ottawa, Ont.)

>Oh yes.. Cecil Pierce, the old planemaker .

I recall reading about how he made wooden planes and invented the setscrew concept of keeping plane irons square to the sole.

I'd like to see the dovetail article he wrote, sounds interesting although not really relevant today with all the excellent tools at our disposal .

Didn't he pass away some time ago?

Norman

Re: What do you think of Cecil Pierce's method for

Denis Chénard, Orléans, Ont.

>He died in '95 or '96.

I'll bring the magazine at the next meeting, if you help me remember it...

DC

Re: What do you think of Cecil Pierce's method for

alan womack

>I think paring is a waste of time. As long as I saw straight, they go together with no gaps the first time, no test fits.

As taught by Rob Cosman.

Alan

Re: What do you think of Cecil Pierce's method for

David Hay @ Denver

>I haven't read the article, but perhaps the paring bit refers to the end grain paring at the bottom of the socket? (e.g. not the sawn bit)

David

Re: What do you think of Cecil Pierce's method for

Norman (Ottawa, Ont.)

>I also haven't read the article, but this is entirely possible. You can easily mark the pin board depth from the tail board simply by overlaying it over the other board on edge. This is also done for the tail board. The baseline can be created with the corner of the chisel with the flat side along the board. So now we have a baseline..

We then eyeball a few tails in, a la Frank Klausz system, no marking or measuring needed. We saw them out with the fine-kerfed hacksaw..

Then the bottoms of the tail board are pared to the baseline with the same chisel.

Transferring the tails to the pin board is done exacly as any other system, except that the edge of the chisel is used to make the marks. Having the flat back of the chisel against the tail is a excellent guide. Next step would be saw the pins and chisel the waste out. Paring would probably be only for the bottoms of the sockets.

It should work ok, but really not necessary with all the neat marking

tools and guides we have today.

Norman

Re: What do you think of Cecil Pierce's method for

Denis Chénard, Orléans, Ont.

>What he does is cut to 1/16" of the line, then pare to the marks with a chisel. Having marked with a chisel, registration is automatic.

The socket bottom is chopped in the regular way.

DC

Cecil Pierce's method for DTs

Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)

>Denis

For those of us who do not know Cecil Pierce, could you write a summary of his methodology for cutting dovetails?

Regards from Perth

Derek

A summary

Denis Chénard, Orléans, Ont.

>Pierce died in January 1996 at the age of 89. Ellis knows him because he was executive editor of AWW at the time. He brought a number of innovations to the plane making field, I think he was the one who introduced the concept of using setscrews to center the blade, among other things.

Here are the main points of his technique for DTs:

- tails first

- half tails instead of half pins

- scribe the baseline 1/16" thicker than the wood pieces, to a depth of 0.006" max.

- scribe layout lines for the tails with a chisel, not a pencil or a marking gauge.

- cut the tails with a 14 tpi hacksaw, staying 1/16" off the layout line

- chop the waste as usual

- pare to the layout line, working fom both sides (as with chopping the waste)

- clamp the tail piece on top of the pin piece

- mark the layout lines in the pin board end grain with a chisel

- transfer the layout to the piece's sides with a square and a chisel

- cut to within 1/16" of the line, using the hacksaw once again

- chop the waste

- pare the pins from both sides, as before

That's it, in a nutshell... In his article, Pierce said that with a bit of practice one eliminates the need to test-fit.

DC

The Why Behind the How

Todd Stock

>I had a nice correspondence with Cecil a year or so before his death. While building a smoother to his plans, I dropped him a note asking for clarification on a few fine points. Cecil wrote a clear description of the steps I had somehow misinterpreted, then offered to ship a complete tool to me as an example - at his expense, of course. A real gentleman and generous with his time as well as experience.

IMO, Cecil worked in the way that he did partly as the result of an industrial accident that left him minus a full hand's worth of fingers. You can see the damage to his hand in shots from the 1996 AWW article, essentially leaving him with thumb and forefinger only on his sawing hand. While I think he had the eye and skill to saw to the line (likely with eyes closed), paring was a more certain thing for Cecil given his hand.

I tried Cecil's methods on a few things, but found it slower than just sawing to the line. I use Cecil's trick for cutting hardened steels with a common hack saw blade quite often, however, as well as a few other odds and ends from "50 Years...". Sam Manning's drawings were a perfect complement to Cecil's vivid story telling and Yankee extra-dry wit.

And FWIW, Cecil also helped lead the way WRT diamond paste on cast iron honing - def a woodworker and boatbuilder ahead of his time.

Thanks DC

Derek Cohen (in Perth Australia)

>

What's that trick again?

Denis Chénard, Orléans, Ont.

>Re: cutting hardened steel with a hacksaw blade?

TIA,

DC

Re: Cecil Pierce's method for DTs *LINK*

Tom in Tipp

>A link to his book:

Tom


http://www.astragalpress.com/precision_handcutting_dovetails.htm

Worked great for him

Ron in Kokomo

>Again, for most of us who are recreational woodworkers with limited output, the method of doing dovetails is not very important, because we are not ever going to get very good at it ( unless we increase our output or devote lots of time to practice) Yes I know there are exceptions, but a general rule describing physical activity is that the human body does not do well things that it has not done quite a bit of recently. So the best advice is find a way that works for you and practice till you get good at it. As has been stated repeatedly elsewhere the main variable is the quality of the saw cuts. Some of us take to this more readily than others. It is interesting that many of us in the internet generation who are used to fairly quick gratification, want to learn hand tool skills NOW.... not gonna happen. There are fantastic booka and article out there about learning to do wonderful hand cut dovetails... there are no books and articles that teach us to do it without a substantial investment of time and practice.

SLLOOOWWW and Lots of Pressure...

Todd Stock

>

Use a new blade too!

Bob Hackett

>