finishing rag disposal

Re: finishing rag disposal

Dan Donaldson

>You probably could if you did it before they got dry, but in general, why would you want to? It would seem that for the cost of rags, it would not be worth the time and soap to wash them. I know that if I tried to put something like that in my washing machine, I would end up inheriting that one for shop use and buying a new one for Lori ;-)

Re: finishing rag disposal

Moses Yoder in White Pigeon, MI

>We use a lot of rags for staining at my day job, and they are washed for us by a company that specializes in that type of work. So I'm sure it can be done. But most of the rags I use have an oil based finish really soaked in to them, and I am not sure if there is a detergent that would remove it. I bought a 60 pound box of rags for $50 or so at a local finishing supply place, it will probably last me 5 years. I think if you put the rags in a bucket of water when you were done using them, or laundered them right away using plenty of detergent it would probably work fine.

Re: finishing rag disposal

Alan Hamilton

>Pam,

I wonder if that advice is really just a way to keep us from burning down the house. Arranging rags so they will dry (spread out, not piled together or wadded up) is a pretty good way to reduce the chances of spontaneous combustion--not the best way perhaps, but it's surely better than tossing them into a "to be washed" pile.

Just a thought.

I.e., I can't think of a reason why rags couldn't be reused--so long as you don't set fire to the laundry room in the process.

Alan

I guess I'm lucky...

Steve Kubien

>My girls are 5 and 3 years old. The older was really easy on her clothes and the 3yr old wears many of them. By the time Zoe is done with them, they make great rags. I haven't given washing them a thought. In fact, I don't use them fast enough and the fresh onesa are starting to stock pile!

Steve Kubien

Re: I guess I'm lucky...

Glenn Madsen in the SF Bay area

>The best rags I have are the well-laundered cloth diapers that still seem to be in abundance in our closets.

My youngest is 25 years old.

Re: finishing rag disposal

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Thanks, guys. I'm getting into french polishing and there's nothing cheap about lint-free linen and wool socks. And then there's the burlap for filling. Also, while I've got some cotton t-shirts that probably should become rags, they're still too good, I wear them when I'm finishing. And there's nothing better for oil than a pre-oiled rag, saves oil at the slight risk of inadvertently transferring some color.

I guess my main concern is whether dry oily rags can start fires. Currently I hang them on a chainlink fence to dry; but I've never had the nerve to bring them back into the shop even after washing them (have been putting off buying a metal container).

Moses, where do you get 60 lbs for $50? And would you know what your employer's vendor uses for detergent?

Pam

Re: finishing rag disposal

Bill Houghton, Sebastopol, CA

>IIRC, there's still some chemical reacting going on even after the rag dries. Not sure how long, or how much heat is produced, though.

Re: finishing rag disposal

Sam Simpson

>Hi Y'all,

Time to remind ourselves what this whole spontaneous combustion is all about.

As oil dries it consumes oxygen. The resulting chemical reaction produces heat. These chemical reactions are exponential, therefore, producing heat at an ever increasing rate until the reaction is compete. If the reaction is taking place in a balled-up pile of rags, it can be quick enough to generate enough heat to combust. But it will not generate that sort of heat if it is laid out flat.

Pam's concern about keeping enough of a supply of quality lint free rags for specific purposes, such as French polishing, is normally overcome by saving the rags in a wet and working condition. This is done by sealing them from oxygen. Nowadays we use ziplock bags. Previously we used a glass jar. A little turps was placed in the bottom of the jar to keep oil rags fresh and a little alcohol used to keep the Frenching rubber fresh.

Remember, it takes all three, the oil, oxygen and the rag to have combustion. Take any one away and all will be safe.

Regards Sam Simpson.

Re: finishing rag disposal

Dean J in MN

>Pam --

I keep my wool wet and in a small glass canning jar. I have a few jars for different wool/shellac combos. The linen is the same, however I tend to wear them out in the first step (pumice) so they end up tossed.

But I do have a few that I use only for the final clearing stages that are still going strong.

-Dean

Re: finishing rag disposal

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Thanks, Dean. I've been following Jewitt so far, so the only pumice linen ever sees is remedial. :)

Pam

Re: finishing rag disposal

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Thanks, Sam. I'd tried saving linens and rubber in glass jars, but they weren't all that great when I tried to reuse them. Now I'll add some turps and alcohol to the mix.

I was also somewhat concerned about the small amount of air in the jars, but figured there wasn't enough to sustain much of a burn. Those freezer ziploc bags are a good idea, they even have label writing areas.

Pam

PS Hope your vacations were really good, glad to see you back.

Re: finishing rag disposal *LINK*

Andy Lincoln,In Dearborn MI

>Pam,

The company I work for buys thier rags through the company at the link provided below.I have no idea of the cost but we probably buy in excess of 500 lb/month .Alot of the time I'll save used rags depending on the chemicals/solvents/cleaners used and bring them home wash with bleach and I have a good supply of shop rags.Everything we buy is white cotton t-shirt material.I once heard that solvents like lacquer thinner (a very common solvent at work) will do damage to the seals and gaskets in a washing machine so I only recycle the ones I am sure about.And after all how bad can a company be with "Tex" in thier name:-)!!


Ace-Tex

Re: finishing rag disposal

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Thanks, Andy, but I really don't have the volume to justify an outside service. It's good to know about lacquer thinner and gaskets.

Pam

Re: finishing rag disposal

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>The air space at the top of the jar is about ¹/₅ Oxygen (O₂). Many industrial processes in which oxidation from the air is a problem, purge the sealed container with an inert gas. Nitrogen (N₂) is the cheapest, most common gas for this use. That's why one sees green gas cylinders chained to telephone poles: The compressed Nitrogen is forcing the Oxygen out of the phone cables. Vintners also purge their bottles with Nitrogen before filling them with wine. Bloxygen is unreasonably expensive, but there are other sources. Butane and propane also work, and are not nearly as explosive as many of the other solvents we use in a wood shop, especially when used in small quantites and diluted well below their respective LEL (lower explosion limit) by a shop full of circulating air.

Sam's suggestion for using a ziplock bag is effective because it reduces the total amount of contained air, and thus oxygen, available for reaction with the hardening oil. But, even a ziplock bag with all the air you can manage squeezed out still has enough oxygen left to annoyingly harden oil or varnish on a brush or rag in a couple of days. If you put your brush or rag in the bag with solvent, squeeze out the air, fill the bag with inert gas, and then squeeze the excess gas out and seal the bag, you will have displaced much more of the oxygen, and thus will further slow and limit the oxidation. Adding a small amount solvent displaces entrapped air from the small spaces between the fibers or bristles, where bulk gas flow is not effective at removing the Oxygen.

Re: finishing rag disposal

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>... But, even a ziplock bag with all the air you can manage squeezed out still has enough oxygen left to annoyingly harden oil or varnish on a brush or rag in a couple of days. ...

Excellent point, Wm. I'm sure Sam is using his every day, so he wouldn't experience this problem; whereas my use will be much less. After reading your message this morning, I went out and bought some cup sized canning jars, planning to use ziplock bags inside the jars. I suppose I'll lose some rubbers and linens here and there, but at least they'll last for a job's duration.

Pam