>Ok, every time I post, I feel like such an idiot but here goes:
Why would I ever need a standard angle block plane which results in a 45 degree cutting angle? Isn't a block plane used when you need to cut some end grain and the lower, effective 37.5 degree angle would work better. I know the higher angle plane can be better for surface work but I've also used the low angle there and it's not bad and besides wouldn't I normally have at least one smoother like a #3 or #4 bench plane.
In other words, a low angle can do most of what a higher angle would do but not the reverse. Or can it?
>This gets debated quite a bit these days. It's my impression that the notion of a higher sharpening angle on a bevel-up plane is a relatively recent idea, or a relatively recent rediscovery of an old one - don't know.
Standard angle block planes have traditionally (meaning: during my lifetime, which is long enough at 57 years for American-grade traditions to be established, though not nearly long enough for British-grade traditions, which require at least two centurys) seen as less specialized than the low-angle planes, useful for long-grain and short-grain work. It IS nice to have a one-hand plane for trimming work.
I work, alas, mostly in softwoods and mild North American hardwoods right now, and I find that either plane works well for my purposes.
>Jim, the following taken from Leonard Lee's book on sharpening.
"But there is nothing to say that you can't put two bevels on a plane blade. You can easily grind and hone a 15 degree bevel on the blade and then put a 10 degree back bevel on the face of the blade. This would still leave you with a 25 degree included angle, but you would now have reduced your cutting angle from 45 degrees to 35 degrees. You are still left with a 10 degree relief angle, which is perfectly adequate for block plane use.
Possibly more significant, you have sharpened the blade of your standard block plan in a manner that will give you a lower cutting angle than someone who sharpens a low-angle block plane in a standard fashion (12 degree bed angle plus 25 degree bevel, a total of 37 degree)"
Why a low angle plane? "...the lower bed angles not only let you use lower cutting angles, but they also align the blade more closely with the direction of cut, therby minimizing chatter."
Therefore, it seems either plane (with an extra blade) can serve all your needs. But, it is easier to have both. IMHO
>Putting a significant back bevel on the blade, whether you choose to change the primary (top) bevel or not, will effectively move the cutting edge forward. This results in a smaller mouth on non-adjustable planes like the ubiquitous Stanley 220 or the LN Rabbet Block Plane. The larger and steeper the back bevel, the tighter the mouth will become.
>they see a 65 and an 18 parked side by side on your plane rack! Sorry for the little funny. I'm not near as smart as most guys here, but I usually use the LA for end grain and the HA going with the grain-unless only one is sharp, then I use that one no matter what.
>A backbevel on a bevel up blade will not alter the cutting angle (as it does on a bevel down blade). On the bed of a low angle plane (12 degrees) and on a standard angle plane (20 degrees) you have a maximum of 12 and 20 degrees respectively to "play with" before the wood "sees" a change in the bevel. A backbevel on a BU blade only serves to strengthen the edge.
>As Derek stated, you have 12 or 20 degrees to play with depending on whether the plane is low angle or standard. This relief angle is important to allow the planned wood to spring back, but usually 5 degrees is sufficient, so that leaves us 7 or 15 degrees for our back angle.
To compensate for the cutting edge being moved up, we move the blade forward, which closes the mouth. Try it, you'll like it!
>I wanted to tighten up the mouth on my Veritas apron plane. I could have used a back bevel but I ended up using some brass shim stock between the bedding area and the blade. It worked out rather nicely.
>That method is cheap, easy, fast and reversable. Lee Valley provides shims with their spokeshaves for the user to adjust the mouth. I once bought an old block plane off the 'bay that had a piece of sheetmetal hacked out of an old beer can under the blade, so that idea has been around for a while.
>the others are quite thought provoking. Maybe I didn't phrase my first post clearly enough. I was asking "why would anyone EVER want to have/buy a HA block plane?" I asked the local Woodcraft store how many of each of the Stanley block planes they had sold. They sell 2 LA to every HA. My contention is that those buying a HA don't know anything and just go with the "Standard angle" as the HA is called, being put off by that "Low Angle" plane, not sure what it does.
Doug seems to answer with some logic but even he says he uses whichever is sharpest. I guess I'll have to go back and try a lot of "with grain" plaining with my LA L/N to see if it does perform badly enough to warrant my having a HA handy.
Thanks to the others for getting me to look at the back bevel issue which I had not thought of before.
I don't have a low angle block plane, and I don't see the need for one. After a few years' struggle with a Brand X block plane, I finally shelled out the necessary bucks for a good one. It does eveything I have ever asked it to do: it will make shavings--actual shavings--from the end grain of every hardwood it's come across, and handles every job with ease.
So I guess I would question why anyone would want a low angle block plane.
>Well, Alan, Good point. I've only had a LA so thought "why would anyone want the other one?" I guess it's all in what you get used to. Thanks for the input.
>There are a lot of factors that go into a block plane choice.
I love using my standard angle LN Adjustable mouth (9 1/2), becasue it feels right, and almost always does the job.
The Veritas Low Angle is wider, with more mass, feels like a small #3, which is one of my favorite smoothing planes. There are times when that is the best plane for the job.
Or the LV Apron plane, a low angle block plane that wins its minutes by being available and safe and small, perfect for many projects.
And the recent vintage Stanley LA version is perfect to hand to somebody, likely one of the kids, who needs to 'plane something'. Or to put in the traveling fix-it bag. Or for rougher work.
>Jim, the low angle block planes are designed primarily for planing end grain and are less useful for general planing if sharpened specifically for the end grain planing task. It depends on how you sharpen the blade, meaning the bevel angle and micro-bevel angle chosen.
True, you can buy two or three blades and sharpen them for specific functions, but this strategy is fiddly. I've collected a few block planes over the last thirty or so years as a working furniture maker, but I really only use one or two, and both the ones I do use have the blade set at the standard angle. I've no real idea what the bevel angle or micro-bevel angle is because I'm one of those freehand Sharp'n'Go types, and just grind, sharpen and hone at angles that feel comfortable.
I'm in the same boat as Alan I suppose. I find the standard block plane configuration works fine. I suppose a low angle block plane would be handy, but I see no reason to go out of my way to buy one. Slainte.