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Reverse Drill Bits????

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Reverse Drill Bits????

#1

Reverse Drill Bits????

Kevin French, Antrim NH

>Talking with a guy today who bought a Snapping Turtle Shell and was make some with it. He said the dealer he bought it off told him he needed a Reverse Drill Bit to drill a hole in the shell, He asked him is that like just drilling in reverse? No, you need a Reverse Drill Bit, And then said it was a common bit and could be found at most hardware stores. (?)

Anyone heard of them? I'm thinking the dealer heard something about reverse drilling, drilling until you start to come through on the back side, then finish by drilling from the back. (?)

Re: Reverse Drill Bits????

#2

Jim in Burlington Ont.

Re: Reverse Drill Bits????

Jim in Burlington Ontario

>Left flute drill bits are mostly used to remove broken bolts. Not sure why you would need them for something like shell.

Re: Reverse Drill Bits????

#3

Re: Reverse Drill Bits????

Eric Kuehne

>I always thought that they were used for filling in holes. ;^)

Sorry, I just couldn't help myself.

Eric

Re: Reverse Drill Bits????

#4

Jack Guzman from Maine

Re: Reverse Drill Bits????

Jack Guzman from Maine

>Hey Kevin,

I just saw some of those in the hardware store the other day.

Maybe it has something to do with how the shell grows.I know you can tell a turtles age by counting the lines around each scale.Each year,each scale grows a new larger layer,so maybe the shell has a sort of grain pattern to it.I still can't see how the direction the drill cuts would make any difference.---Jack

Re: Reverse Drill Bits????

#5

Jack Guzman from Maine

unless?

Jack Guzman from Maine

>How's this? Maybe you don't want to cut when drilling.The shell may tear. A reverse bit would wear/burn it's way through when run in the normal direction.Wild guessing.---Jack

Re: Reverse Drill Bits????

#6

What did the Idians use?

Todd O. Cronkhite Maine Native in FL. Exile :~(

>Stone points/tools I'd imagine, or a hot stick of some type. I think that somebody is full o' bull.

Todd O.

Re: Reverse Drill Bits????

#7

Re: unless?

Kevin French, Antrim NH

>But then a normal twist in reverse would be the same thing. (?)

Re: Reverse Drill Bits????

#8

Re: unless?

Todd O. Cronkhite Maine Native in FL. Exile :~(

>A metal cutting drill bit dosen't cut very well in reverse, but they might do alright in the shell. Seems to me I saw some router bits(as in for P@wer ones) that where billed as "upcuts". they spun in the same direction as we know as forward, but the flutes where different. About as clear as mud eh?

Todd O.

Re: Reverse Drill Bits????

#9

My Experance Drilling Turtles

Todd Hughes

>When I was a kid my Grandfather told my cousin and me about his father who once found some drowned Kid by attaching a rope to a big snapper turtle and using it to go "Drowned Kid Fishing" Told us once a snapper grabs hold of something , in this case a drowned kid it won't let go and his dad just pulled the snapper up attached to the kid. We thought it was pretty neat story and about week later we come across a huge snapper looking for a place to lay it's eggs. Now we hadn't heard of any freshly drowned kids in the river but thought it still wouldn't hurt to look for one anyway.After some trouble got the snapper in a wheel barrow and took it up to the barn, first just thought about tieing the string to a back leg but figured it might cramp the turtles swimming ability so figured we should drill a hole in the back of the shell.One of those things that sounds real good till you try it.Finaly put a couple burlap bags over the front of the turtle and held it in place with a pitch fork then both of us using it took a breast drill and drilled a hole in the edge of the shell all the time thinking about those turtles that won't let go of what they bite.Will point out didn't know we needed a special drill bit.Hole was to small but we stuck a hog ring in it and tied the bailing twine to that. Wheeled the snapper down to the water and dumped it out and off it went into the water swiming under a big fallen down tree where it holed up. My cousin was convinced that something "Big" was under the log dead and that the turtle had latched on to it. Finaly with both of us pulling on the bailing twine the hog ring opened up and we were out of the drowned kid fishing bussines.......Todd

Re: Reverse Drill Bits????

#11

drilling thin material

Warren in Lancaster, PA

>It can be rather frustrating drilling material that is thin and brittle. The drill rather suddenly pokes through and gets caught. The flutes are stuck in a lopsided hole. In a brittle material the force of turning the drill will crack it rather than round out the hole. Perhaps a reciprocating drill (like the Indians used or a Yankee reciprocating drill) or the bits they use would be better. I have sometimes used dentist burrs on stuff like this.

Re: Reverse Drill Bits????

#12

Re: My Experance Drilling Turtles

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>ROTFLMAO. That's gotta be one of your best stories, Todd.

When I was a kid, they told us that the snapper got ahold of you, he wouldn't let go until lightning struck, even if you cut off his head. My son used to keep one of the Florida variety, called an Alligator Snapper, as a pet. He named it after his least favorite first grade teacher. I don't think there's a meaner or greedier critter on the face of the Earth, Bill Gates and OBL notwithstanding.

Re: Reverse Drill Bits????

#13

Jack Guzman from Maine

Re: My Experance Drilling Turtles

Jack Guzman from Maine

>When I was a boy I used to play with snappers in the local pond. I found the best way to catch them was to first catch a fish,then hook the fish through the spine.Then I cast the dead fish in front of a floating snapper.Once it grabbed it's lunch I simply reeled it in.As long as I didn't jerk the line ,the turtle had no clue until it was close enough to grab it by the tail.The only thing is you end up leaving the hook in the turtle.There's no way to retrieve it.---Jack

Re: Reverse Drill Bits????

#14

Rake angles

Jim Reed @ Tallahassee

>He was very close, but no cigar was awarded. What is needed is a *zero rake* angle drill. Most drill bits have a rake angle so that they cut into hard materials, otherwise the bit just spins and does not cut. Soft materials like brass and turtle shells drill too quickly and the drill bit just screws into them. Brass will seize the bit; turtle shell will crack. Find a drill bit with zero rake and it will scrape its way thru OK. Good luck.

Re: Reverse Drill Bits????

#15

Fornster bit should also work

Ian in Sydney

>Jim's explanation suggests that a forstner bit should also work.

Not sure whether you would be better off with a saw tooth or the other sort, but the circular scraping cutting action would approximate that of a zero rake twist bit.

Re: Reverse Drill Bits????

#16

Re: drilling thin material

Bill Lowrance in Geneva

>A way to prevent tear-out and edge fraying when piercing irregular thin hard material is to use the classic metal-chasing or -piercing technique of setting it onto a hard backing material such as pitch (soft when heated but hard when cool, and later removed by warming and then cleaning with mineral spirits or other solvent depending on the composition of the pitch). You can get pitch from jewellers' suppliers such as Allcraft in New York, or a local metalworker might let you use his pitchbowl. For smallish holes even hard sealing wax might work, but you'd need to experiment to find the right clean-off solvent.

Re: Reverse Drill Bits????

#17

Re: Rake angles and drill bits

Bob Hackett

>Any machinist worth his salt can hook you up with the correct grind if you bring him the bit.

One of the skills we needed to master in order to be considered a full fledged machinist was to be able to freehand grind a twist drill bit correctly so it would drill to tolerance in most any metal in the shop.

Brass and bronze required a scraping cut so we generally just put a secondary bevel on the required drill and then reground for steel after the hole was drilled.

You can also drill a slightly oversized hole if you know how to grind the bit correctly.

If you come to my shop I can even show you how to drill a square hole(hint:it requires a triangular bit).I`ve made alot of money with that trick.

Mainely,Bob

Re: Reverse Drill Bits????

#18

You can tame'em, if u have 100 yrs and 30 fingers!

Frank on Chestnut Hill

>

Re: Reverse Drill Bits????

#19

Re: My Experance Drilling Turtles

Mike Swindell

>Well there's lot of stories here, but not alot of help. If you want left hand bits, more than likely a local machinist supply house or www.mscdirect.com will carry them. I've used them for removing silicon bronze screws from my Chris Craft restoration. Don't ask me why, but many of the CNC machines use left hand bits and that's why they are alot more common than people think. If you ever intend on using them instead of an ezout, be careful with the drill speed, but once they grab the screw will be removed quite easily.

Cheers

Re: Reverse Drill Bits????

#20

Re: Rake angles, I'm with Jim

Keith Newton

>I am with Jim in that I don't think direction of rotation could matter, but a drill for plex would work fine, and for larger holes a spade type should work.

Beyond that, I am stuck feeling sorry for that poor unknown lost drowned kid in Todd's story down under that log on the bottom of the river with a big snapping turtle holding onto him, just waiting for those kids to pull them both out, and now he is needing to come up for air, and has a hog-ring stuck in his butt cause those kids didn't have a big enough drill. I'll bet they drew some stares when they crossed over to the other side!!!!!!!

Re: Reverse Drill Bits????

#21

Re: My Experance Drilling Turtles

R.J.Whelan

>Todd .... as soon as I saw your name and the subject line I knew I was in for a treat - you never disappoint.

I'm 59 years old and this is the first time I've heard there was such a thing as a "drowned kid business".

It's been a long hot day in the shop - thanks for the chuckle .... rj

Re: Reverse Drill Bits????

#22

Primitive drilling of carapace and horn

David Barnett - Venice, FL

>Reverse? Maybe, although not likely. Reversible? Definitely, or more specifically, bidirectionally.

Earliest drilling of tortoiseshell employed straight shaft drills (a bone splinter or wooden stick spun back and forth between the palms of the hands, often with a sharp fragment of bone, shell or flint affixed to the end), bow drills, and later flywheel pump drills. Friction can easily generate enough heat to produce a hole, but as Oppi Untracht states in Jewelry Concepts & Technology: "Real tortoiseshell fuses to a black mass when heated and smells like burning hair." It also becomes brittle and flakey after melting.

As for metal drills for very thin materials (natural or otherwise), they gain very little if any advantage by fluting, so it's common to make simpler drills. You can do this easily: take a hand sewing needle of desired diameter. Sharply snap off the tapered pointed section. If it snaps cleanly it's good enough steel of proper hardness. Otherwise, find another needle. Now pull it along a honing stone or sandpaper, first one side, then the opposite until it is forms a centered wedge with a sharp arris. Chuck it in a pin vise and twiddle it back and forth with your fingers or between your palms. A more complicated centered V-point with opposing bevels works nicely, too, but is more often used on pearls and shell as it's less likely to delaminate nacre. An improvement is to flare the business end with a hammer blow to give more shank clearance. You'd need to anneal, forge and reharden, of course. A match will do.

Horn can be pierced, drilled and punched. Both tortoiseshell and horn can be boiled and soaked, rendering them more suitable for piercing/punching. Boiling and clamping scarfed sheets of either material will result in an iseperable and largely invisible weld and can be moulded/formed this way, as well.

As for Bill Lowrance's suggestion of drilling over Allcraft's excellent Red German pitch, I'm sure Tevel will gladly sell you a kilo to try (it's not cheap, mind you), but you can back your drilling just as well with wood or any non-brittle thermoplastic substrate (Delrin, Nylon, whatever). Scotch tape works, too.

Re: Reverse Drill Bits????

#23

Jim is dead on, of course.

David Barnett - Venice, FL

>I modify all my drills for brass, copper, and so on to zero rake. Also, it's smart to use screw machine length drills anytime you're drilling gummy grabby stuff. This also works well when drilling into the end grain of certain dense woods such as ebony or cocobolo -- especially on the lathe.

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