tote handle help

Re: tote handle help

Chris McLaughlin

>How about a sliding dovetail that is larger at the bottom than at the top?

Re: tote handle help

Jack Guzman from Maine

>I thought of that but I couldn't figure out a simple way to do it.Like for instance;how wide,where to make the entry point for the bottom.A sliding dovetail needs an entry point to insert the male piece.Maybe I could just cut the groove all the way to the bottom below the goove for the bottom panel. Once the piece was assembled you'd have to turn it over to see the part that was cut out.I may do just that unless I can think of something better.---Jack

Re: tote handle help

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>The totes I build have a different geometry than the one you are working on, but here is a photo showing how I attach the tote to the tote. I cut a through mortise in the box end and shape a matching tenon in the end of the handle. Then, I drill a hole through the handle and use a dowel with the back surface shaved to fit flush, as a tusk tenon.

Of course, extending the ends to the height required by your tote wouldn't work, because the grain runs in the wrong direction to support dovetailed construction of the box itself. Alternately, a more radical curve of the handle would also have structural problems, unless you wanted to steam bend it, or do a bent glued-up lamination.

Probably, the quickest fix is similar to what you have shown, with the vertically grained center section of the end screwed or nailed crossgrain to the horizontally grained ends themselves. The only other structurally sound alternatives I could suggest is to join the center third to the ends with either a glued bridle joint or mortise and tenons. Neither is a simple solution, amenable to a short demonstration project using hand tools.

Re: tote handle help

Patrick Gibbons, Houston

>Why not avoid the problem altogether and shape the sides such that the uprights are part of the board. It would require wide boards but not so wide that it would be impractical.

Re: tote handle help

Patrick Gibbons, Houston

>Sir William's right. My first suggestion would not be a good solution.

pic

jeff tapke

>I have a photo of such a tote at home, when I get off work, I'll try and post it. It uses the end boards and then the handle attaches. It's dovetailed at the sides, I liked it enough to snatch the photo and place it on my things to build someday list.

Re: tote handle help

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>Be careful: If the handle attachment is above the place where the ends join to the sides, then you end up on the horns of a dilemma. If the end grain is horizontal, then the handle to end joint is prone to failure, or a split in the end is easy anywhere below this joint and above the ends. OTOH (on the other horn), if the end grain is vertical to support the handle, then the dovetails fail.

If on the other hand, you lower the attachment point to below the ends of the end boards, you can build the whole thing out of 1/4" stock, and still carry a couple of jointers, lots of chisels, stones, a brace and bits, and a couple of saws and a block plane or two without structural problems. Of course by the time you've loaded it with that much iron and steel, who cares whether the box itself is 1/4 or 3/4 stock?

solution?

Jack Guzman from Maine

>After reading all your replies(thanks for helping me think this out)I went down to the shop this morning determined to figure this out. I don't want to scrap the plan,something about the look appeals to me.I threw this together with a few scraps I had laying around.It looks like it will do the job just fine.It's simple enough to execute ,should handle the stresses and it keeps the general look of the tote.I may use a larger dowel and it will go all the way through both pieces.The tenon along with the shoulders on the arced handle keeps the upright from coming away from the side. Any thoughts?---Jack

also...

Jack Guzman from Maine

>In case you're wondering,the wider part of the upright with the dowel in it is inside the tote.---Jack

Re: tote handle help

Ernie Miller

>Looks to me like that box is just nailed together Jack you don't need no dove tails! good dry wood and a 12 or 16P nail and they wil split into fire wood lickety split. I made mine following Williams pattern several years ago. Good luck on your demo.

Re: solution?

Clay C in Miami

>Assuming you use beefy hardwood dowels, that looks plenty strong ... but looking at it, I now wonder whether the mortise in the top of the side is needed - what if the handle were allowed to rotate on the dowel, so you could swing it out of the way in use? If you were concerned about unbalanced weight making it tilt while being carried (and thus spilling the tools!) you could do a second, very small dowel in one vertical only, just to hold it in place - that one could even be removable.

Or, if you want to mortise it in as well as dowel, does it make more sense to mortise it (shallowly) into a dado in the inside face of the end piece, rather than into its top? Might be an easier mortise to cut quickly, gives you a skosh more room inside the box, and that way, you don't have to do any cutting on the vertical member to make a tenon on it (assuming I'm seeing your photo correctly on this itty-bitty laptop screen!).

I've been thinking about a different, but related handle issue - see my 'chisel caddy' post a coupla screens down below ...

Good luck, and be sure to let us know the final answer.

Clay

Re: tote handle help

Warren in Lancaster, PA

>I would make a shallow housing or dado in the end piece for the upright to fit into. Then I would make a full length rod or divider going right down the middle with a tenon going through both upright and end piece. If you make the tails on the sides it will help hold everything together. I think it will look better if the side pieces are slightly thinner than the ends.

Re: tote handle help

Pat Harper

>I think you can use a sliding dovetail in this situation. However, it will not be full length, but only about 2 inches long. Make the toolbox and the tote first, but don't assemble it yet. Leave the uprights a few inches long so you can trim the ends later on.

The first step would be to cut the male profile of the dovetail on a piece of stock that is about 1/3 the width of the uprights. Cut a piece off this stick that is 2 inches long and glue it to the inside of the uprights. It should be centered in the width of the uprights, and, depending on the height of the toolbox and the height of the uprights, about 10 inches from the bottom of the handle(assuming 8 inch depth of box and 6 inches between the handle and the box). Next, cut a mortise in the end panels about 1/4 above the groove for the bottom. This mortise should be a little longer and a little wider that the dovetail key you glued to the uprights. Then cut the female profile of the dovetail above the mortise. You could use a forstner bit to hog out the waste and chisels to cut the profile, but it may be easier to use a router. Dry fit the joint and cut the uprights flush with the top of the groove for the bottom. If everything goes well, the ends of the uprights will cover the mortise and the joint will never come apart.

Thanks

Jack Guzman from Maine

>I appreciate all the ideas.I decided to stick with the plan I posted a picture of.I need simple or I get brain cramp and can't function at all. I'll post a picture of the finished product.---Jack

what I did

Jack Guzman from Maine

>Here's the finished tote.I cut a mortise into the top of the side and a tenon in the upright.The upright is anchored to the side with a dowel and the tenon shoulder on the handle keeps it pressed against the side.The joint is plenty strong enough.I like the way it looks.I'm going to use the tote to carry tools for future demos at the museum.---Jack

here's the picture(I forgot to insert it) 

Jack Guzman from Maine

>

Re: what I did

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>Hey, Jack, that works! I really like your solution. You should have no structural problems with that one, unless maybe you are carrying around a bunch of spent uranium bodied infills for a blade angle demonstration. :^)

While I'm making comments on tool totes, there is one other salient point I would like to point out about my low-slung design. Note that it is not pertineent to your high handled design, but it needs to be mentioned anyhow.

The issue is pins vs. tails. If one is schlepping tools around, they are more likely to build up more momentum sliding end-to-end in the tote than side-to-side. If the handle and tusk tenons in the end are low enough and dimensioned properly, then that alone is sufficient to absorb the force of sliding tools. In that case, you can put the pins in the sides and the tails in the ends, like I do with mine. My dovetails are therefore made to be strongest in counteracting sideways forces. This also allows me some extra strength that I can use to slant the sides and counteract some of the resultant wedging forces of the contents. If, however, the handle is as high as yours, then you need to put the tails in the sides and the pins in the ends, as you did, because only the tails in the sides can counteract end-to-end sliding tools.

In summary, your configuration will work well as is, ane also with slanted ends, if you wanted them, but if you wanted one slanted side, as well, you would have to reverse your pins and tails and lower your handle. As St. Roy pointed out several years ago, you don't want two slanted sides, because if the side closest to your thigh is slanted, it will be too uncomfortable to carry.

My exquisitely crafted tote

Paul M. in San Diego

>I thought everyone should see this beautiful vision. I needed a tote to contain all the loose capacitors and switches for my vacuum pump (used for veneering).

I used the finest baltic birch plywood, and actually did use only hand tools to saw out the pieces and rabbet (and fillester!) them with a junky #78. No glue, just a bunch of screws. I think the hockey-stick handle held in place with a couple of nails is the craftsman touch that makes the entire piece work.

Thank you for letting me share my finest work ever with you folks. The hour I spent putting this together was well worth it! ;-)

Re: My exquisitely crafted tote

Dan Clermont

>Where do you find a hockey stick in San Diego? That is truly the Canadian way Eh!!!

Dan Clermont

Hockey... That kind of rings a bell...

Denis Chénard, Orléans, Ont.

>

Re: My exquisitely crafted tote

Paul M. in San Diego

>Hi Dan,

Believe it or not, there is ice hockey in San Diego. I played for years until I busted my arm. The dang thing never healed up right, and still hurts after long planing sessions. I decided not to shake my puny fists at fate any longer and found other uses for the sticks.

What kind of Neander are you?!?!?!?

Bill Houghton, Sebastopol, CA

>You used a PLASTIC switch plate cover instead of crafting one from ebony? Jeez, Paul.

How was planing the baltic birch?

Re: My exquisitely crafted tote

Jim in Burlington Ontario

>Now if it was hand cranked. I do like the hockey stick usage never can find enough uses for the broken ones.

Re: What kind of Neander are you?!?!?!?

Paul M. in San Diego

>Hi Bill,

It works great for a few strokes. Then there is sudden tear-out for the next few strokes. Then it starts working again. This was the most unpredictable wood that I've ever planed. ;-)

I think I'll ship a chunk up to Sunnyvale so that Lyn can include it in his next test. The community at large really needs to see how well a Loopy will work on cross-grain layers of Baltic Barf. ;-)