Boiling Oil (Stones) *PICS*

Re: NEAT!!

Dale Lenz-Tahlequah, OK

>Thanks for sharing the process with us.....Dale

Re: NEAT!!

Peter Michaux

>Yes. Thanks for posting. That is really interesting!

Re: Boiling Oil (Stones) *PICS*

Mike Fitterling

>When you let it cool on the range after boiling, did you leave it in the water/oil/soap mixture or did you pour that off? TIA

I need to do this same thing to a couple old stones I have.

Re: Boiling Oil (Stones) *PICS*

L. Hanson

>I just left it as is until it cooled off quite a bit. It was still pretty hot, but not extreme when I removed it. I think the biggest thing to remember is not to "shock" the stone with temperature somehow, that might crack it.

Nice result, and something to try.

David Barnett

>Leif, I've done a few of these myself and am always happy to bring a stone or slip back from the tar pits. The difference is that I add about a teaspoon of TSP (trisodium phosphate) to the water in a stainless steel or enameled pan and use pebbles instead of rags. Instead of cooling in the water I immediately remove the stone and plop it into a big deep tray of very warm sawdust (which I use to dry metals fresh out of hot pickle). The TSP (you could use di and mono as well, but TSP is easier to find*) really holds onto the oils and the hot sawdust sucks up both oil and water, leaving (to my eye) a cleaner surface free from residual emulsified oil. A final scrubbing with harsh detergent (more TSP - wear gloves), and the stone's ready for flattening on a diamond lap (or whatever).

*TSP is not always TSP, anymore. Hardware stores often carry boxes of what's called in big letters "TSP", but then it says "Phosphate Free", which is fairly misleading, so read the label. If it's phosphate free, forget it and find another detergent or hold out for the real thing. Come to think of it, real TSP used to be a component of dishwasher detergent, which is why that may work well for people where TSP isn't banned yet (not particularly good for the environment).

Re: Nice result, and something to try.

Todd O. Cronkhite Maine Native in FL. Exile :~(

>Leif,

Excellent post and photos, Thanks! for your efforts.

I read here a while back about boiling stones and ran right out to a local thrift shop and bought a deep pot with lid, and that's as far as I've got so far. I was thinking that when boiling the stone you should have another pan of boiling water right beside it, so that you can take it out of the oily water and put it into the clean (boiling) water to cool.

David,

I can see where the hot sawdust is also a good idea to wick out water, but wonder how you heat the sawdust. In the oven? what temp? how long?

Todd O.

Re: Boiling Oil (Stones) *PICS*

Tony Zaffuto

>Lief, and others,

I faced a similar issue with a stone I bought (maybe $8.00 at most). Anyhow it was a light tan color with several darker streaks and very clogged.

I tried various methods, including sanding and using loose SC particles, but to no avail. This past weekend, figuring that I wouldn't be out much if it wouldn't work, I tried some oven cleaner on one side of the stone and it worked wonders! Lifted decades of oil out, and leaving a very smooth and hard slightly off-white colored stone.

David and Tony:

L. Hanson

>Thanks!

I'm adding this info to my web site - I'm going to add both of your suggestions, If you don't mind:

Cleaning an Old Oil Stone

I've got a small line in there - I'll add a little more to it later tomorrow. I think others can benefit from it, and the more info out there the better...

Leif

www.norsewoodsmith.com

Another use for buxus sempervirens

David Barnett

>Todd, I'm eclectic. I've used a metal box wrapped in strip heaters at a silversmith's workshop. I'd say it stayed around 170F but couldn't be sure. You want it warm enough to drive off the moisture in the sawdust and so as to wick up pickle, etc., from the silver, copper, whatever, but not so hot as to brown the wood. Certainly nowhere near the flashpoint. I've used a turkey pan on top of the woodstove (in Massachusetts), and I've also used an iron skillet on a regulated hotplate and a large crockpot (on low). This stays around 150-160F, which is all right as long as you're not dipping a lot of metal (or stone) at one go. BTW, the sawdust of choice was always boxwood, and not ground like flour, but coarser, more like cornmeal or grits, or coarser still. Maple works, too. And kitty litter (bentonite), but be sure it's 'fresh' before you warm that, heh.

Olfactory Dave's disturbing tip o' the week: Add a few drops of Bergamot, Sandalwood, and Ylang Ylang essential oils to your warm sawdust for a woodsy potpouri shop experience.

Thanks Leif

Todd O. Cronkhite Maine Native in FL. Exile :~(

>For the add'l info. I don't have ready access to boxwood sawdust, but kitty litter I do.

I like the idea of putting it into a moisture wicking agent better than putting into clean boiling water too cool. I'm gonna try this real soon.

be sure it's[kitty litter]'fresh' before you warm

now he tell me :~(

Todd O.

Re: Boiling Oil (Stones) *PICS*

Patrick Gibbons, Houston

>While I have no experience in this subject, it seems to me that because oil floats on top of water that as long as the stone is completely covered by the water the oil will be kept away from it. After removing the stone from the "infusion" a simple rinse with degreaser should remove any remaining surface oil. Am I missing something?

Re: Boiling Oil (Stones) *PICS*

L. Hanson

>Patrick;

I didn't see it as a big issue when I did mine - most of the oil floated away from the stone,and while the solution it sat in while it cooled was a bit dirty, not much of the old oil stuck to the stone when I pulled it out. What little that did remain on the surface came off easily when I sanded it. You can see the results in the photos in my original post. Some people might simply want it cleaner, or maybe starting with a much dirtier stone, or may be using the stone for kitchen utensils and want it as clean and toxin-free as possible, so it's valid issue. It does require an extra step, and I simply wasn't worried about getting it to that level.

The water remaining in the stone wasn't a problem for me, either. It was still pretty warm when I pulled it out and it evaporated quickly. What was left (and I'm sure there was some) isn't a big deal to me, as I imagine it will work it's way out over time. This might be a bigger issue for people who store their stones in an unheated space in a cold climate... If that is the case, baking the stone at a lower temp for a few hours in a dry oven might be a good way to dry it out. This might not even be an issue on arkansas stones, as they don't really soak in as much as say an India or Carborundum stone would.

Speaking of which, if you boil out the oil on an India or Carborundum stone, you should soak it in clean honing oil for a couple of days to "recharge" it.

What I did find it interesting that the oil that came out of the stone I boiled did not float. If anything, it settled to the bottom. I really don't know why that is...

Leif

NorseWoodsmith.com

From Sludges & Slurries & Swarfs & Resins...

David Barnett - Venice, FL

>& Things that go Glop in the Night, Dear Lord deliver Us.

It's so simple, but it isn't. Given a light and relatively pure (whatever that is) oil and distilled water, yes, oil will float on the water. Now get those water molecules all jiggy with heat and throw in some salts (or other compounds) and things can change.

Who knows what lurks amidst the clotted, gelled, squashed and stretched partially polymerized oleaginous chains that clog your abrasive particles just waiting to break free? Those wonderfully adulterated fats and greases might just as soon sink as rise. You may get fractions of each, some light, others heavier. Who knows? Yeah, pour it off, rinse with more boiling water maybe. I opt for at least partial saponification to arrest some of the more active goos and gums. The addition of TSP is a good middle road. Of course, you could dump in the Red Devil lye and get a completely viable result but that'd be a bit more industrial than most people feel comfortable with in the kitchen, unless you're used to making soap, which is quite doable, of course. There, though, the lye and the fats gobble each other up in a perfectly proportional pas a deux of saponification, so cleanup's no real prob. So TSP, if you have it.

Which leads to another thing you may want to try (learned this from fellow engraver). When your favorite fine Arkansas bench stone begins to get gunky, you can switch from oil to water mixed with a surfactant-dispersant. Remember, the idea's to float away the swarf, not so much to lubricate the abrasive. I use Triton X-100 Wetting Agent from Perkin Elmer, but you could use any mild nonionic surfactant, such as Basic-H (Shaklee, cheaper). Even a drop or two of some other not-too-sudsing detergent will work, I suppose. Try honing with this a few times. It'll take up oils that threaten to thicken and make that stone fairly slick. It'll feel different than mineral oil, 3-in-1, or kerosene (paraffin for you Brits) neat or blended with your huile du jour, but it'll remove metal nonetheless.

Anyway, it's something else to try. And if you spring for watered-down Triton X-100, keep that bottle around as a handy field surgical scrub or throw in a little octoxynol-9 or triclosan for a terrific impromptu spermicide.

Re: From Sludges & Slurries & Swarfs & Resins...

L. Hanson

>Lord, deliver us, indeed!

Thank you, David, for your wonderful prose and elucidations on the matter. Wonderful stuff!

As an additional note on the maintenance of oil stones, I've also found that once or twice a year you can clean off some of the gunk that forms by placing the stone on a window sill on a warm day for an hour or so... The heat from the sun partially liquefies the oil and helps float it out of the pores of the stone, allowing you to wipe it off.

Leif

NorseWoodsmith.com

Just curious

Dan Donaldson

>What would happen if you put a bit of surfactant in the water that you use on a waterstone? Any value? Damage the stone?

Re: Just curious

David Barnett - Venice, FL

>Won't hurt, but it'll dry sort of sticky, which is counterproductive as far as honing goes. Most of these can be considered quite concentrated (gooey) until water is added, and there's a tendency to not dilute nearly enough. People who associate high sudsing to soft water and thorough cleansing often have trouble adjusting to the fact that low and non-sudsing cleansing action may be equally thorough or even more thorough, which is why household detergents (especially laundry) are offered in a broad sudsing range. The average consumer: lotsa suds more-is-better apply-full-strength (that's me in a nutshell), tends to squander here. Industrial and medical purchasers are more sophisticated and buy powerful cleansing agents with specific amphipathic characteristics (heads 'n' tails), in particular ionic, nonionic, and zwitterionic (a word I don't get to utter nearly so often as I'd like) surfactant groups.

I guess the short answer is rub a couple drops into your stone's or diamond plate's surface, spritz with water and brush. I also typically sprinkle a bit of pumice and/or Bon Ami to give it some gritty and/or foaming and absorbing action, pretty much just for the added excitement.