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grinder wheel evaluation for sharpening

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grinder wheel evaluation for sharpening

#1

grinder wheel evaluation for sharpening

bill tindall

>This discussion will focus on using the bench grinder for sharpening, where a small amount of metal must be removed to establish a wire edge prior to edge refinement by honing. An in depth discussion of grinder wheels has recently been posted in the Articles section and only the highlights will be repeated in this study of three wheel types.

Background When sharpening a dull edge enough metal must be removed to establish a wire edge. The appearance of the wire edge ensures that all of the worn edge has been removed. This step can involve removing a significant amount of metal, a slow process on a bench stone. To speed this process woodworkers have considered the advantages of a "power assist" in the form of some sort of sharpening machine. The versatile, and inexpensive, bench grinder may not be considered for this task for fear that it will heat the edge and destroy its hardness. I will show that with proper wheel selection, the bench grinder is both a quick and inexpensive way to use power assisted sharpening without fear of overheating.

The act of grinding generates heat which, if not removed from the tool, will heat the edge and soften it. Softening can occur at temperatures as low as 400 F depending on the steel, so heating during grinding is a serious concern. If the abrasive particle contacting the steel is sharp, a metal shaving is milled from the steel and ejected. A significant amount of the generated heat will be removed in this shower of red sparks. A dull grit ploughs across the steel and transfers much of the heat to the steel. So the "secret" to cool grinding is to renew sharp grit particles at the grinding wheel surface.

Two factors determine the sharpness of the particle during grinding. "Particle friability" is the particle's tendency to fracture under grinding pressure. The abrasive particle can be designed to fracture under the particular pressure used for grinding, heavy pressure for heavy material removal and light pressure for sharpening. As the particle edges break off, new sharp edges are exposed. Obviously, this process can not go on forever because the particle grows smaller as its edges break off. The bond holding the particles together can be designed to slowly fail under the pressure used in grinding and thereby slowly release the dull particles from the wheel surface. As these dull particles erode away, fresh sharp particles are exposed. "Bond hardness" is used to describe this wheel property. It is designated by a letter grade, G or H for a very soft bond, to N for a very hard bond typical of the gray wheels that come with bench grinders. It follows that particle friability and bond hardness BOTH must be tailored to the grinding pressure conditions expected as well as the hardness of the metal being ground. Heavy material removal, such as tool shaping, require a less friable particle than light pressure grinding such as would be used for sharpening and hard metals require a softer bond.

The typical wheel sold for bench grinders is optimized for heavy pressure grinding and soft steel. When such a hard, less friable wheel is used for sharpening at light pressure the surface particles dull, the wheel loads up with metal dust and vast amounts of heat are soon generated. It is little wonder that many people have concluded that bench grinders are inappropriate for sharpening.

The appropriate abrasive particle as well as the optimum bond- both must be considered for sharpening- are available in wheels used in surface grinder machines. Unfortunately, none of the woodworking sources have stocked such wheels sized for bench grinders. Many places stock "white wheels" which have abrasive of the proper friability, but the bond in these wheels is too hard for sharpening tool steels(see test results below). Perhaps as customers become knowledgeable about what is best, woodworking sources will begin to stock appropriate wheels. Indeed one source has already pursued this opportunity.

I recently posted some favorable results for grinder-sharpening using a surface grinding wheel from Radiac. Joel, Tools for Working Wood, suggested an alternative wheel that he and the folks at Norton were developing. Joel arranged for me to try this Norton 3X wheel.

The test Three wheels were used in this test, all 7", 80 grit, on a 3600 rpm grinder.

1. Norton 3X , bond hardness I. This wheel is 30% Norton SG aluminium oxide particles and the remainder white aluminium oxide, probably 9A. The combination is friable. The SG component is expensive to make, and long lived while maintaining sharp edges, and the bond is somewhat soft.

2. Norton White 9A, bond hardness J. This abrasive is very friable but the bond is fairly hard.

3. Radiac RAA abrasive, bond hardness H. This abrasive is very friable and the bond is quite soft. Radiac claims it is nearly equivalent to Norton 25A abrasive. It is pink from chromium and pink is a different abrasive than red or ruby which is not very friable. Chromium is supposed to make this abrasive better for abrasion resistant steels, eg A2 and CPM 3V.

A thin A2, a thick O1 and a very thick CPM 3V plane iron and a 3/8" CPM 3V bench chisel were sharpened with these wheels. The bevel angle was 28 degrees and grinding extended to the cutting edge of the tool. It could be said that this was a "cutting edge" grinding evaluation. (Groan!) Grinding technique was "touch and go", that is while moving the tool from left to right and right to left it was contacted with the wheel as it moved past the wheel surface. On purpose considerably more metal was removed than would have been the case with normal sharpening. This grinding provided a severe test of edge heating, especially with the thin plane iron and small chisel, which provided little mass for heat removal.

Results The 9A wheel with its hard bond quickly loaded up with metal, the surface dulled and I could not control burning. This test illustrates that a friable grit is insufficient. It must be combined with a soft bond to be cool running.

No evidence of burning was encountered with the other wheels. Only the wire edge was discolored, which is unimportant. The Radiac wheel cut a bit faster which may not be an advantage if fine control of grinding is important. The softer bond of the Radiac wheel shed particles in use. In my experience the Radiac wheel sheds particles at such a rate that wheel dressing is never necessary, but shed particles can be a housekeeping issue, especially if they land on a board to be planed. The Norton 3X wheel slightly loaded with metal after some use. It might eventually be necessary to dress it, but maybe not. It shed particles much less than the Radiac wheel (because of harder bond). The finish from each wheel was the same as best I could tell. A few honing strokes on 15 micron diamond removed the grinder scratches in either case .

Conclusions Either the Norton 3X or the Radiac RAA wheel can be used to sharpen edges without burning, at least under the conditions tested. It is expected that a Norton 25A in a soft bond would be equivalent in cool grinding. A 9A or equivalent might also be just fine in a soft bond, say G or H. It is my impression that the Norton 3X wheel is in beta testing and will soon be available in a variety of sizes and grits at places where Norton wheels are sold. The Norton 25A and 9A may be had at tool places that sell to metal shops, eg MSC, but it can be problematic getting the wheel in sizes best for bench grinders. The Radiac wheel must be custom ordered from Radiac. Our club recently ordered a batch of custom sized Radiac wheels, which solves the minimum order size problem for custom wheels.

Because these wheels provide a cheap alternative to sharpening machines, some costing hundreds of dollars, there is a fine marketing opportunity on the table for someone to stock wheels of optimum grit composition and wheel bond hardness in bench grinder sizes.

Re: grinder wheel evaluation for sharpening

#2

Re: grinder wheel evaluation for sharpening *LINK*

Joel

>just one comment - 60 grit 3X wheels are avaiable now in 6" and 8" diameters. other grit sizes are expected in a few weeks. The formal rollout of the wheels will be this summer and I would expect a host of other retailers to start stocking it in addition to us by the fall.


3x wheels

Re: grinder wheel evaluation for sharpening

#3

Re: grinder wheel evaluation for sharpening

paul womack

>This grinding provided a severe test of edge heating, especially with the thin plane iron and small chisel, which provided little mass for heat removal.

Extrapolating, this would make a fine (thin) 1/8" bevel edged paring chisel the worst possible tool w.r.t edge heating?

BugBear

Re: grinder wheel evaluation for sharpening

#4

Re: grinder wheel evaluation for sharpening

Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)

>Yup! Blued many like this in an instant, despite the awareness that it might occur, despite being extra careful ... even when just caressing the wheel. ..... careful now... Damn!

Regards from Perth

Derek

Re: grinder wheel evaluation for sharpening

#5

Jack Guzman from Maine

slow speed grinders

Jack Guzman from Maine

>Bill,do you have any information on whether/or how the speed of the grinder affects your study?I use a Delta that runs at 1725 rpm.Does this run too slowly to properly affect the abrasive particles for optimal results?---Jack

Re: grinder wheel evaluation for sharpening

#6

a guess, and thoughts........

bill tindall

>I would think that slow speed grinders would result in less pressure on the particle all else being the same. Therefore, a more friable particle would be desirable, compared to higher speed grinding.

The sharp grits of these cool running wheels are very aggressive, even on the vanadium steels. So, when burning is no longer an issue, control at the edge becomes something to worry about and the slow speed seems to be an advantage in inexperienced hands.

I have in fact installed a Norton 25A 60 grit on a 1750 8"grinder for a friend. I LOVED it and I am searching for a 3 phase grinder that I can use with a converter to vary speed. What I liked was the control it provided. The only reason I went with a finer wheel (80) was to slow down metal removal. I can hone with 15 micron diamond just fine off a 60 grit wheel, but WOW the 60 grit makes metal go away at alarming rates when working the edge. My first attempt on a plane iron looked like a bread knife.

In summary, the 25A wheel performed marvously on a 1750 grinder and I am confident the Radiac grit would do the same. Perhaps Joel can comment on the 3X wheel at slow speed, as I have no way of testing it until I visit the friend with the slow speed grinder, and he is at the beach.

Re: grinder wheel evaluation for sharpening

#7

Re: a guess, and thoughts........

Joel

>I use a 6" (3k rpm) high speed grinder and have had no problems controling metal removal. I like the speed and yes one must use a light touch and pay attention but otherwise it's not a big deal.

However a 8" 1800 rpm grinder is running about the same surface speed as I think a 2600 rpm 6" whell - so it's not that slow. It will work slower but I think work fine.

Re: grinder wheel evaluation for sharpening

#8

Re: grinder wheel evaluation for sharpening *LINK*

Bob Fawcett

>I have used this Lee Valley wheel with good results. I didn't know any of the great information that you posted when I purchased it, I just knew that my old Jet 8" grinder with the grey wheel would not work with that wheel.

I bought 2 Stanley 1/4" chisels and reshaped the edges to make a pair of skew chisels 1 left hand and one right hand. I did the grinding by hand on the jet (3600 rpm). Even though my grinder is an 8", I bought the 6" wheel to slow down SFPM.

Bill,

How does this wheel fit into your list. I don't see any indication of what grit type it is. Is this a 9A?


Wheel I used.

Re: grinder wheel evaluation for sharpening

#9

Re: grinder wheel evaluation for sharpening

Joel

>Just to test I ground a 1/8" bevel edge on a 6" 3x Wheel - I burned the burr but not the chisel itself so I would say while it's the hardest size chisel to grind it's not impossible by a long shot - It took more care than usual and of course it goes extremely fast.

That being said I don't think I would recommend grinding something that size to a burr - the chisel is so narrow, and hones so fast - leaving a little meat to hone off isn't a big deal.

Re: grinder wheel evaluation for sharpening

#10

best guess on Lee Valley wheel

bill tindall

>I was not aware of this product. It looks to be an excellent wheel for sharpening. It is a soft bond and the friable, open structure is right on the money for best coolness. I talk about an open structure in the Article; it is best. I expect this wheel is similar to the Norton 9A, though I am not sure if 9A is an open structure. (The Radiac RAA is an open structure wheel.) The price is excellent. It will wear more quickly than the 3X wheel and probably shed grits more, but that may not be important in all cases.

Re: grinder wheel evaluation for sharpening

#11

FYI

Ed Thomas, Leaside (Toronto) Ontario

>I have both of those grits at 8" and the 120 is off the grinder at the moment while I'm doing some lathe mods. Those wheels are not for grinding bolts & I-beams. ;-)

FYI, as I have it in front of me, here is Norton's code from the wheel: 38A120-H8VBE.

HTH,

Ed

Re: grinder wheel evaluation for sharpening

#12

applying the decoder ring.....

bill tindall

>38A120-H8VBE.

38 A is a white cool cutting aluminium oxide grit for light stock removal in heat sensitive materials, equivalent to Radiac 9A. This is likely Norton's most friable grit and hence excellent for cool grinding and (speculation on my part) low rpm situations where grinding pressure would be less. This is most probably Norton's coolest cutting wheel. The Radiac equivalent according to Radiac manual, 9A, is advertised as Radiac's coolest cutting wheel.

120 is the grit size, H is bond hardness. G is the softest I have ever see so H is still very soft, again good for cool grinding and hard steels.

8V means a vitrified bond and medium structure. Structure means grit density reletive to bond material. More open means grits farther apart, like open coat sand paper. 8 is middle of road.

BE is something to do with the bond, but I don't have a decoder for this part of Norton code. This may be the -part that indicates an induced porosity structure (good for coolness)

For grinding lathe tools that tend to be more abrasion resistant than plane iron steels the addition of some chromium to make it a pink wheel could be advantageous, at least in theory. I have the wheels to test pink vs white, but have not done it.

(note: 1/2" surface grinder wheels are on sale often for $10 or less so it is not extravagent to buy a few to test various grit types. I certainly haven't paid $30 each for my collection!)

I would expect that this wheel is excellent for sharpening, but with some sacrifice in wheel life because of soft bond. What is your experience?

Re: grinder wheel evaluation for sharpening

#13

Re: Another wheel, another *LINK*

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>The Woodcraft 8" Slow Speed Grinder, which was recently on sale for about 80 clams, (now offered at 95 clams) also comes equipped with two white wheels. However, none of Woodcraft's documentation, neither on-line nor included with the grinder, provides any specifications on the grit, the abrasive or the bond of these wheels. A hint: one is obviously coarser than the other one :^). Does anyone have any specs, or any other information on these wheels? If not, I guess I will just have to try them out and report back on the results. I have done the math, so I am not overly optimistic. If the Woodcraft wheels were equivalent to the Lee Valley 8"x1" wheels at 30 clams apiece, that only leaves 20 clams for the grinder, itself.

Re: grinder wheel evaluation for sharpening

#14

Re: Another wheel, another

Joe Rogers, Northern Virginia

>Bill...me thinks you are spending too much time on the water...or not enough.:-) JR

Re: grinder wheel evaluation for sharpening

#15

Jack Guzman from Maine

Re: Another wheel, another

Jack Guzman from Maine

>I took one of mine off the arbor to read the label on it. Aluminum oxide for composition and bond type-vitrified(I have no idea what that means).There's no other technical info on them.---Jack

Re: grinder wheel evaluation for sharpening

#16

Re: Another wheel, another

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>I've been spending too much time sweating and swatting strawberry flies lately. In a couple of weeks, all that will change. The strawberry flies will go off to do the next phase in their life cycle, and the greenheads will come around to plague us. Imagine, if you will, a 1" long flying bolt cutter.

Re: grinder wheel evaluation for sharpening

#17

Re: applying the decoder ring.....

Bob Fawcett

>"I would expect that this wheel is excellent for sharpening, but with some sacrifice in wheel life because of soft bond. What is your experience? "

That is exactly on the mark. The wheel works very well for grinding edge tools. It looks like the wheel wear is somewhat faster than I have seen on other wheels.

Thanks for the great information. Could you post a source for the "decoder ring".

What is needed to adapt a surface grinder wheel to a bench grinder? A set of bushings?

Re: grinder wheel evaluation for sharpening

#18

Re: applying the decoder ring.....

Ed Thomas, Leaside (Toronto) Ontario

>Yes, the bond is very soft. The reason for swapping back to the stock wheel ... cleaning up the hack sawn ends of about 20 pieces of all-thread was chewing up the wheel.

Re: grinder wheel evaluation for sharpening

#19

most probably....

bill tindall

>Most probably they are not nearly as cool grinding at the LV wheel or Norton wheel or Radiac equivalents. They appeared to be a harder bond. Becasue the contolled friable grits seem to be expensive to make one likely will not find them in cheap wheels. But the bottom line is that one would just have to try it to know for sure.

The el cheapo white wheel that came on a friends grinder was good for starting fires by friction but I would not recommend it for sharpeing.

Re: grinder wheel evaluation for sharpening

#20

Source for the decoder ring.....

bill tindall

>call Radiac 1-800-851-1095 and ask for "Industrial catalog" and "performance wheels" brochure, or web site: radiac.com and a great wealth of information is in there.

No doubt Norton has a similar publication and in days past one could call their tech service and get it. But the last time I tired to contact Norton tech service I was cut off at the pass and told to contact my distributor. I asked for similar info from the head marketing person who sent me the 3X wheel but haven't seen anything yet.

MSC catalog also has some info.

Surface grinder wheels have 1 1/4" holes. Typically they are 1/2" wide but in some formats one can get 1". I have wondered about putting two 1/2 side by side to get 1". Control is easier on 1" than 1/2".

Re: grinder wheel evaluation for sharpening

#21

David Barnett

A thread well worth saving, Bill...

David Barnett

>Well thought out and informative. A lot of time and experience went into this and it shows. Lately it seems less is available in 7" diameter wheels, so at least I better understand my options. Thanks for sharing this.

Re: grinder wheel evaluation for sharpening

#23

Thanks Chris

Bob Fawcett

>

Re: grinder wheel evaluation for sharpening

#24

Re: Another wheel, another

Don Thompson - Cutler Ridge, Florida

>I have the Woodcraft SS grinder with the white wheels. They are definitely more friable than the standard HoDepot grinder grey wheels, but I do not know how else to evaluate them, other than to say that they seem to work well. I do not it a lot, and never have used it heavily, so YMMV.

The wheels were quite out of round, so I got one of those single-point diamond thingies that you recommended (from Enco maybe? - don't remember how many carats), and used it and the Veritas grinder jig to true up them up.

The tool rest that came with the grinder was the usual thin sheet metal affair (I did not choose to use it).

It IS a pretty good price.

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