16/4 quartersawn beech...

My theory

Adam Cherubini

>Hi Frank!

I haven't made any woodies but I have worked with beech and maple quite a bit making other tools so...

Technically these woods have distinctive differences, but my experience is that they are pretty comparable in terms of working characteristics. The sap wood in my beech seems very soft and curly so I found it very unsatisfactory to plane. The heart wood was fine. The maple I have worked seemed much more consistant.

I've worked air dried soft maple which I thought was very soft, and kiln dried hard maple that was almost unworkable. Ditto for beech except that the worst KD stuff I've had was a bit easier to work than the KD maple.

If you are asking about a choice of which to use for a plane, I'd say either will work well as a plane material.

You might want to experiment with the older designs (when they used woods other than beech for planes) as opposed to the square English designs that were almost always beech. I have this theory that they (okay the French and the Dutch mostly) shaped their plane bodies to expose end grain so the plane would seasonally (or daily) acclimate faster.

In the same way a coffin smoother is curved on the sides, long French and Dutch planes are curved on the top (and sometimes slightly on the sides). German planes do that sometimes too. They'll have a rectangular sole, then the body an inch or so above the sole will be slightly boat shaped. It maybe just for pretty or a nod to comfort, but I think it has to do with moisture regulation.

Good luck with the planes

Adam

Re: My theory

Frank Mutchler in Colorado Springs

>Thanks, Adam. I've located 4/4 beech south of Denver for $4.25/bf so I'm going to go get some of that to "practice" on. Todd's video shows him using 4/4 glued up to 16/4 for his planes.

I've recently worked through about 200 bf of kd hard maple and found it extremely hard. I will probably glue some of that up just for comparison sake.

At this stage, I think I will leave the subtle curves you described to the French & the Dutch. Once I get comfortable that will be something to consider. Thanks again for the info!

I'd pick beech

Warren in PA

>One thing I've noticed is that beech is a rather "dead" wood. That is to say it absorbs shock and vibration much more than hard maple. I think this makes it a better wood for planes and workbenches also. I think the wedging action is better in beech- it seems to grab and stay where you want it with less force than hard maple.

Of the woods I've used, hard and soft maple and beech, beech was the best texture for this technical work and the best performer as a plane.

Re: My theory

paul womack

>You might want to experiment with the older designs (when they used woods other than beech for planes) as opposed to the square English designs that were almost always beech. I have this theory that they (okay the French and the Dutch mostly)

Just to fill out the permutations, what design did old English planes follow, and what do newer French and Dutch planes look like?

BugBear

Re: My theory

Adam Cherubini

>Just to fill out the permutations, what design did old English planes follow, and what do newer French and Dutch planes look like?

As far as I can tell, old English planes seemed to follow the French/continental design. The uniquely English square, plain designs seemed to emerge early in the 18th c, and were completely distinct from their continental counterparts as the century drew to a close. This may have had something to do with plane making becoming an industry in England, and remaining the job of the user elsewhere. Not sure.

Modern French/continental planes (Peugeot Ferres)look like Ulmia planes more or less. The upper curves are now gone from the long planes, and the boat shape to the bodies are now little more than a router pass. But they continue to seem willing to make planes out of woods other than beech.

In summation, I suspect the English choose a cheap and plentiful wood that was succiently stable in an easy to mass produce shape. In europe, perhaps because planes were not mass produced, designs emerged that gave similarly stable (actually fast moving) planes in practically any wood. The price these continental workmen paid was that the planes required a bit more labor to produce. Integrating a tote onto a curved surface for example, is a bit more difficult.

For those of you interested in making planes, I encourage you to try some of these older, imho beautiful designs, especially when working woods that, unlike beech, are slow to acclimate. Some very beautiful planes are depicted in Goodman's "History of Woodworking Tools". It's out of print now, but your local library may have a copy.

Adam

Re: 16/4 quartersawn beech...

Don Thompson - Cutler Ridge, Florida

>Some time ago, maybe over on Badger Pond, there was a long thread on this matter. A fellow there insisted that QS Beech was the best wood for a plane (maybe the subject was H&R planes), but could not elaborate a better reason then it was The Wisdom of the Ancients. ;-)

Subsequent to that, I think I corresponded with Larry Williams on the issue. He explained to me (IIRC), that foremost amongst the beneficial features of QS Beech is that once dried properly, it is more stable in hand planes in regard to movement due to seasonal moisture variations.

I cannot remember why this was so, though.

Goodman

fmutchler@adelphia.net

>Amazon has at least 4 copies ranging from about $110 - $150 per.

Wisdom of the Ancients

Adam Cherubini

>There's something to be said for hundreds of years of trial and error:

Some time ago, maybe over on Badger Pond, there was a long thread on this matter. A fellow there insisted that QS Beech was the best wood for a plane (maybe the subject was H&R planes), but could not elaborate a better reason then it was The Wisdom of the Ancients. ;-)

Beech is NOT the most stable wood. Maple is more stable, and mahogany is more stable than that. Walnut is pretty stable. But we don't see a lot of walnut or mahogany planes.

Pretty sure Larry Williams believes beech moves faster than other woods. I think he would say the during change in seasons the beech plane would accilimate in days where the maple plane might take months. I'm not sure what data there is to support that theory, but its a good story.

I've also heard tell here or elsewhere that laminating plane bodies creates waterproof barriers which prevent the plane from moving as a whole.

I'm not sure how much any of this matters in real life. I just recall the issue, and I like the story.

I can say Paul and I were in Pennsbury's unheated shop this past Sunday and I had to refit a tenon to a mortise I had made 2 months ago. 2 months ago the fit was perfect and Sunday the two couldn't be forced together- clearly either the mortise had shrunk (not likely) or the tenon swelled faster than the mortise (more likely, imho). So I think there's something to the whole wood movement theory. Pennsbury's shop may or may not be typical of 18th c shops. But if it is typical, its seems pretty inhospitable to wood stability. If you worked in such a shop, you might take extra steps to keep your planes cutting, joints fitting, etc.

Adam

P.S. the tenon was left on the bench disassembled from the mortise.

I thought beech was used...

Denis Ch�nard, Orl�ans, Ont.

>...because of its excellent resistance to wear.

I remember reading a wood profile on beech in FWW by the late Jon Arno, where himself was somewhat puzzled by the use of beech in planes, as it is definitely not the most stable wood. Even maple is better in that category...

DC

more on subject

bill tindall

>A person that makes reproduction planes in Canada told me he liked maple best (over beech). He uses them daily, especially the planes for coopering.

Europeans would have used beech because that is what they had and it is a different animal than our beech.

I have read that domestic beech was boiled before drying. If so, this would extract some lignin and maybe make the beech more stable. It would certainly eliminate any stress present on the wood.

I have a maple block plane that I use regularly (it is my only block plane). After 3 years I can barely see any wear. Considering how easy it was to make it will last as long as I need it to. David Finck uses wood planes exclusively in his business. They are made from all kinds of woods. I have concluded it doesn't mater what hard wood a plane is made from.

Re: more on subject

Patrick Gibbons, Houston

>I believe that early American hollow/rounds were made of birch. Beech is the "donkey wood" of Europe, to quote Ian Kirby. That is, it is the wood they use for general purposes as we tend to use maple or red oak. The English match for our maple is their sycamore (which is in the maple family). Were any English planes commonly made in English sycamore? Lately I've been working with European steamed beech to make some saw handles and it feels different from maple. That is it works with a much different feel. It doesn't seem to splinter like maple can sometimes nor does it have tear out that I can discern. The grain seems to be well-mannered. These are touchy/feely observations but perhaps others have a better grasp of what I'm trying to convey.

Yellow Birch....

fmutchler@adelphia.net

>From "Making Traditional Wooden Planes" by John M. Whelan; pg. 4:

"Except for the yellow birch planes of the early New England planemakers, by far the largest number of American and English planes were made of beechwood. Air dried stock was the norm in early times....."

It seems that they had access to the same indigenous woods we do and for some reason they chose beechwood.

Re: 16/4 quartersawn beech...

Christof Hartge

>Hello all,

I don#t want to challenge the wisdom of the ancients, but there choice may have some very practical reasons:

Beech is plentiful in Contintal Europe, together with oaks the beeches are the "beech-oak mixed wood". A remark: If you were once under the high branches of a beech and hear a certain rain fall, through the sunbeams, you'll realize that thousand and thousands of beech nuts are pouring down from one tree. If you ever saw and heared this you'll probably wish that this queen of the woods may never be felled. Hm, back to the story

Moreover beech isn't very usefull for general purposes. Other than oak beech is hard to work with hand-tools and is in no way durable against insects and moisture. You won#t see beech used much often in old furniture, only for special parts like wedges and slides.

So the the ancients had a hard dense wood in big dimensions, which served only as firewood --- or for planes.

The alternative to beech was and is hornbeam. In the southern parts of Germany easy to obtain. The big toolmakers like Ulmia�, Ott and ECE offered their planes alternanately in beech or hornbeam. In my opinion hornbeam is the better choice: It is harder and more wear resistand than beech.

Christof.

C & W article *LINK*

Ed Mulligan, Cape Cod

>Clark and William's thoughts on beech are posted on their website.


Beech for planes

Re: 16/4 quartersawn beech...

Warren in PA

>When you are using a plane day to day you are not thinking things like "I may have to adjust the sole in January" or "I might need a new plane in 40 years. Bigger considerations are things like how the plane feels in your hands how quickly can you adjust it and whether you can get the iron just where you want it. I think this is where beech shines.

I have worn through plane irons and I have worn oilstones and waterstones down to nothing, but my beech planes show negligible wear. I don't ever expect to meet someone who has worn out a beech bench plane.

Beech undergoes a fair amount of shrinkage and distortion during seasoning, but an older beech plane moves little from season to season.

Re: Wisdom of the Ancients

Don Thompson - Cutler Ridge, Florida

>Adam, with all respect to your experience and Pensbury work, I often have a strong desire to know why something should be done, as opposed to being told that it should be done a certain way "it has always been done that way." In any event, the poster WayBackWhen was a bit, um, excited about the whole thing, and that was why I emphasized the point.

Pretty sure Larry Williams believes beech moves faster than other woods. I think he would say the during change in seasons the beech plane would accilimate in days where the maple plane might take months. I'm not sure what data there is to support that theory, but its a good story.

I think that your surmise may be correct. IIRC, he made a point that because the moisture mostly travels in and out of end grain, a plane such as a side-escapement hollow or round deforms when not in a state of moisture equilibrium. Hence, a wood that is tough enough for a plane, and that can move the moisture in and out rapidly, makes a good plane.

I am sure that Larry Williams, planemaker, could better explain this phenomenum (or good story, as you put it) than could I, if you should care to contact him.

Cheers.

Re: 16/4 quartersawn beech...

Don Thompson - Cutler Ridge, Florida

>Hello Cristof,

I am not sure whether the european beech is the same as the north american beech (Sir Wm.?).

Never mind - see Ed Mulligan's Link Below.

Don Thompson - Cutler Ridge, Florida

>

Re: 16/4 quartersawn beech...

Warren in PA

>European beech (Fagus sylvatica) is a different species from our American beech. In Europe it is grown in plantations resulting in high quality timber. It is occasionally planted in our area especially copper beech which is a variety.I have only worked the wood a few times- not enough to notice differences.

Christof mentioned insect damage in a previous post. For some reason European beech is quite susceptible to worm damage while ours is not. If you see a molding plane with small worm holes it is almost certainly European.

Re: 16/4 quartersawn beech...

Christof Hartge

>Hello Don,

I really don't know exactly about the general differences, but considering that the quality of European beech differs much, dependend to the exact place where tree grew, I tend to your opinion.

Still, beech wasn't the best choice available to German planemakers. They favoured hornbeam. And obviously they had the stock in the right dimensions. I found an 28"" jointer quartersawn, made from hornbeam.

Perhaps the British planemakers hadn't enough hornbeam available and choosed the softer but cheaper beech.

Christof.

Re: I thought beech was used...

Larry Williams

>Hi Denis,

I've been following this thread with some interest but it could turn out being a real time sink for me.

First of all, the traditional woodworking definition of "stable" is that the ratio of tangential and radial shrinkage from green to dry is as close to one to one as possible. For woodworkers using dimensional lumber like 1X it can be a serious issue. The differential of the two is one of the main causes of defects or problems in woodworking.

For planes, especially bench planes, this isn't the wood movement issue. The issue lies in the differential in moisture content between the core and surface areas and the resulting surface distortions as they relate to critical surfaces of a plane like the sole or bed.

Beech, of all the woods mentioned in this thread has one of the lowest rates of movement along radially sawn (quarter sawn) face. That's very important because it's where the wedge is housed. Like any angled joints like miter joints in woodworking, angles change with moisture because of wood's anisotropic nature. All other features of a wooden plane don't mean much if the wedge doesn't properly fit and solidly secure the iron.

I find beech incredibly friendly to working with hand or power tools. Maple, cherry and other woods which make pretty good planes aren't as easy to work.

Another issue would be steaming or boiling of beech. Experience has led me to believe it was done to sterilize the wood. Beech is incredibly susceptible to fungal growth. It doesn't take more than one session of scrubbing each board of a big load of wood with bleach and a fungicide to teach you this one. We buy our wood green because there isn't an option. When our supplier gets the custom cut wood in, we have to be ready to go get it immediately. He may bring in a number of different woods at the same time and the beech will almost immediately start turning black from fungus while cherry, oak, walnut and others aren't effected. Simply sterilizing the surface of the wood with a fungicide eliminates the problem and steaming would do the same thing.

All in all, when you list all the properties of beech as it applies to plane making and compare them to the properties of other woods, beech will come out far superior.

Unless a plane is used on the arris of a corner, wear isn't an much of an issue in a wooden plane. I consider wear of the iron through sharpening to have a much quicker negative effect.

Time�s up and I need to get back to the shop.

Thanks

Denis Ch�nard, Orl�ans, Ont.

>Your description, along with the C & W note, explain pretty well the rationale for beech...

I have a 4 X 6 piece of beech, 7 feet long, sitting somewhere in my wood pile. Maybe it's time I dig it out and try my hand at this plane making thing...

DC

You have what???

Frank D. in Montreal

>Hey Denis,

Did I mention I'll be driving by Orleans a couple times this summer? I was just wondering if you knew where I could find some oversized beech...

Frank

(just kidding, kind of...)

Hey, if you want a piece...

Denis Ch�nard, Ottawa, Ont.

>Like, for making a plane, you're welcome to stop by...

DC

Just gotta find where the board is...