Shapton Sharpening Question

Re: Shapton Sharpening Question

Ed Snow

>Not all tool steels will go to the mirror. I use the shapton pros and get a dull mirror on about everything. My best guess is the diamond stone is leaving very deep scratches in the surface of the A2 and you are not working them enough on the 5000 grit. Diamond stones are pretty notorious for being uneven.

If they work well, does it really matter if they reach a mirror bright finish.

Re: Shapton Sharpening Question

Tony R.

>Thanks. I really don't think its an issue of the dmt's. if i change direction on the 8000, i immediately see the scratches change directions, so the scratches are being made by the 8000. i agree, don't think it makes a performance difference, but surprises me that the 8000 shapton leaves obvious scratches that i can see with the naked eye.

Re: Shapton Sharpening Question

Angus Barclay, in New Zealand

>If you're sharpening woodwordking tools then the test of success is how well they cut. And you've told us that already:

"I have been using my shapton stones with good success. Arm hair shaving, no problem.

Don't sweat petty stuff *. Shiny blades make sense if you plan to use them for optics instead of cutting wood but every second spent polishing an already sharp blade is time you could better devote to woodworking.

regards

Angus Barclay

* Don't pet sweaty stuff either!

Re: Shapton Sharpening Question

Wiley Horne

>Hi Tony,

I tend to agree with Ed, but will offer one other possibility. What you may be seeing particularly happens when you make diamond scratches on real hard steel, in my experience. I am guessing that the 1200 g diamond is making scratches in the A2 that the 5000g stone is not taking out. So when you come along with the 5000g and especially the 8000g, you're making a cross-hatch pattern with the original 1200g scratches. It doesn't do this on the Ashley Iles O-1, because on the softer O-1 the 5000g is removing the diamond scratches.

The other possibility is that the stones are getting rogue particles of sanding grit or some other abrasive from the flattening operation, and carrying that over and scratching the steel. However, washing the stones under running water and wiping the surface clean with the water running will remove all such grit IME.

I agree with the others that mirror finish doesn't equate with sharpness, but that's another subject. Sounds like you're getting good results.

Wiley

Re: Shapton Sharpening Question

arw01

>My Charlesworth sharpening video shows a dull gray on the back of his Lie Nielson A2's. I suspect it would take a higher stone to get a true polish. Must be a metal difference. On my Stanleys I can count pores.

Alan

Re: Shapton Sharpening Question

Todd Stock

>The Shaptons are a faster cutting stone than the Nortons that I use, so the more aggressive cutting action may be producing the hazy look.

My guess is that the scratch size is pretty small, and likely does not have that much impact on edge retention. Might consider running out one more stone grade if the mother-in-law is heading over to examine her nose hair in your chisels, but if the tool is cutting wood well (as opposed to functioning as a personal grooming device), I'd leave well enough alone.

Re: Shapton Sharpening Question

brent smith

>You are getting cross contamination from the 5000 grit stone.All it takes is a couple of particles to really mess up the final polish.Make sure you wipe the blade down well between stones and spray the 8000 often while using it.

Re: Shapton Sharpening Question

CONGER - The Irish diaspora in Munich

>I agree. I have (unfortunately) seen this many times before. My son found this for me!

The best thing to do is to wipe the blade under running with water before moving on to the next stone, and also make sure that the stones are not contacting.

You will now have to clean the contaminated stones down; use a nail-brush under running water.

-g-

Re: Shapton, crosscontamination and rob cosman

Brian Green

>I've notice that I dont get a mirror polish using the 800king, 4000king, 8000shapton but both chisels and the A2 4.5 smoother blades easily cut endgrain...I can get it with 2000 grit wet dry paper and I don't think that they are any sharper.

Rob Cosman in his sharpening dvd uses 3 norton stones. 2-1000, and 1-8000. He flattens both the 1000 and the 8000 with the other 1000 very frequently to keep the stones flat and never appears to flush the 8000 grit to get rid of any cross contamination. I usually test sharpness in pine and hard maple end grain...not much hair left on the arms.

Re: Shapton, crosscontamination and rob cosman

Rick Hoppe

>Tony, I agree with Brent about rinsing the blade. I might add, if you are using a sharpening jig, rinse the jig as well. I use a pump bottle for wetting my stones, so I just spray the blade and jig at the same time and wipe with a fairly clean rag.

As to how Rob Cosman gets away without flushing; he doesn�t use Shapton stones. The grit material on the Shaptons is much denser than other stones, including Norton(which I have used as well). So the Shaptons cut faster, but I think that because of this, cross contamination might show up more easily if the stones are not flushed frequently ( as recommended by the Shapton literature).

Absolute shininess may not be important (even to 4000 grit will probably cut end grain). If you�re an obsessive / compulsive type like me, get a 15000 grit Shapton; guaranteed shine.

Re: Shapton, crosscontamination and rob cosman

Tonyr

>Thanks everyone for your help. I think that what is happening is a combination of things. Probably some cross contamination plus from what most are saying, sounds like its not possible to get a true mirror finish on the LN A2 blades with the shapton 5000/8000 combo. in addition, i do believe that my flattening stone is leaving the surface of the stones rougher than the would be if i used the recommended flattening grit and so i believe that is contributing as well. thanks again for all the help, tony.

Re: Shapton, crosscontamination and rob cosman

Steve Knight

>nothign wrong with a rougher stone surface it keeps the tool from sticking. I flatten all my shaptons with 120/220 grit

Crosscontamination

CONGER - The Irish diaspora in Munich

>Yes, I saw several people do that (Rob C. and David Charlesworth). Maybe it does depends on the stones.

I use older NORTONS, and they definitely suffer from cross contamination; I have seen this myself. I was only able to eliminate this by flushing the stones and the blade with running water; I was able to get 'embedded' grit out of the stones with a nail brush.

The last disaster I had like this was due to a Japanese chisel. The chisel chipped, and I did not notice it until I had finished the board surface with my smoother. The soul of the smoother had tram-tracks along it! Eeehh! I now look carefully at the chisels after I use them!

-g-

Re: Shapton, crosscontamination and rob cosman

tonyr

>guess i'm wrong....

Re: Crosscontamination

Todd Stock

>I have not seen this issue with Norton stones - I use both a 1000 and a 600 grit diamond stone for dressing the 8000 (no 5000 - not really needed IMO).

I wonder if the older Nortons and the Shaptons are that different, or if I am using so much rinse water that the contaminants are being washed away. I'll def have to try to see just what is going on.

Re: Shapton Sharpening Question

Rusty Miller-Tye, Tx

>Let me throw in something else. Can the Shaptons be flatened with glass & wet/dry sandpaper like most of the other water stones?

Rusty

Flattening Shaptons

Steve Elliott

>Yes, wet/dry paper will flatten Shaptons very well, but the paper wears out somewhat quickly. I've found that sprinkling some loose SiC abrasive on the worn-out paper is a cheap and effective substitute for fresh paper. I only do that when flattening the coarse and medium grit stones because I'm concerned about getting coarse SiC grit embedded in the finishing stones.