eBay disagreement *LINK*

Re: eBay disagreement *LINK*

walt Q

>I was one of the bidders...brasscityrecords...I called the dealers to ask some questions..he was close by..he didn't seem to know too much about tools but was willing to take the sole off and describe the bushings..also measured the mouth and gave me a few more details about the plane...as far as I could tell without actually having it in my hand..it was/is real. I already have one of these I picked up at a flea market a few years ago...for real cheap..and his descriptions matched mine. Would have been nice to have a spare..but not at that price. I got a real "thing" for scrapers.

my vote is for "real"

walt Q


brass city tools

Re: eBay disagreement

Moses Yoder in White Pigeon, MI

>I would say it's a 12-3/4, especially with Walt's confirmation. But I think Walter's book is quite a ways off on what the actual average sale is on a lot of these tools. Especially the more uncommon ones before ebay. But then I'm not really keeping track of what a 12-3/4 normally sells for, so I could be wrong.

How is is...

Ted Owen, Pittsburgh

>the next-to-the-last bid came in after the final bid? Am I misreading something?

Best, Ted

Proxy bid by the winner made earlier?

Joe Rogers, Northern Virginia

>

Re: How is is...

Skip in Falls Church

>The earliest bid of a tie bid wins. They were only a few seconds apart and I guess they both got accepted. It happens every once in a while.

Skip

Yep, proxy

Clay C in Miami

>Bidding Fun -

As of 9:30 am PDT, the high bidder was Walt at $360, and his 'ceiling' was set at $368. At 9:38:08, the ultimate winner, cotti, places a bid with a ceiling at or over $665.98, and becomes the high bidder at $373 ($5 over Walt, just enough to lead). 6 seconds later, efisher bids $655.98, and eBay applies cotti's ceiling, and the new high bid is cotti at $665.98 ($10 increments kick in at $500, I think). Efisher got the 'you've been outbid' message, but since he sniped at 4 seconds remaining, it was too late for him to increase his bid. Cotti was leading before and after efisher - all efisher did was to cost cotti almost $300!

Now, all this assumes one unlikely fact - that there weren't any others who dropped in bids between $360 and $655.98 in the last few seconds, only to get the 'invalid bid amount' response, because at 9:38:14 it was already over $665.

But, this auction can be used to show the value of sniping. Eliminate cotti and efisher and other unknown bidders, and assume that Walt (brasscity) and bikerbeaner were the two highest interested bidders. And, assume that no matter what, Walt is not willing to pay over $368, and bikerbeaner will only go to $355. Bikerbeaner placed his bid at 4 am EDT, with ceiling at $355, and he was then the high bidder at $275. Walt comes in a few hours later and bids it up in 8 increments, with his first bid at the minimum increment - $280 - at 8:38, and his last at $368 at 9:29 - he became the leading bidder with his 6th bid of $360, then he'd bumped that up to $368 in two more increments, for a bit of breathing room.

But, assume bikerbeaner had sniped instead - Walt would have become the leading bidder immediately upon placing his first $280 bid at 8:38. Seems we can safely assume that Walt would not have then placed his next bid with his 'real' $368 ceiling, since he didn't do so in actuality. Auction approaches closing, Walt remains high bidder at $280 - maybe he has even put in an extra bid with ceiling at $290 for breathing room (just like he actually did from $360 to $368).

Assume bikerbeaner places his one and only bid at the last moment - for $355 - and even though Walt was ultimately willing to go higher, the item would go to bb - for $310! But, by not waiting, he loses it to Walt instead, at $360.

Look at it another way - even if bikerbeaner was willing to go $400, and thus he was gonna take it from Walt no matter what, he likely would've saved almost $100 by sniping. Again assuming Walt's absolute ceiling was $368, by giving Walt his own earlier bid to 'shoot at,' bikerbeaner would've eventually paid $5 over Walt's last bid, i.e. $373, whereas by waiting and sniping, he could've won it for $5 over wherever Walt stopped once he became high bidder - likely somewhere between $285 and $295. Either way he wins it, but by sniping he likely wins it for a whole lot less.

As long as you truly bid every dollar you're willing to spend, it is ALWAYS to your benefit as a buyer to snipe. Many, many times I've sniped in a bid that was 3 or 4 times what I ended up winning the item for - because you never know what OTHER snipers are out there! Nonetheless, it's always a pleasure to bid $200 for something, then win it for $50 or $60.

It's human nature that it's hard to know quite what you'd pay for something until it gets bumped up inch by inch. But, bidding items up incrementally, as Walt did here, only tips off snipers like me that your ceiling is probably not much over what was necessary to become the current high bidder - and even if you do put in a 'breathing room' bid after becoming the high bidder, that shows and tells other bidders something too. I've also looked at the bid histories of the other items bid on by my 'competition' for a particular item, to see what bid patterns I can see - size of 'breathing room' bids, likelihood of another last-minute bid, etc.

Walt, I've probably learned as much from your posts as I have from almost anyone here, and I have immense respect for your tool knowledge, so I hope you understand that I'm offering this only to illustrate - and selfishly, myself I hope you will keep on bidding just the way you do now!

Clay

Re: Yep, proxy

Mike McDaniel

>I'm not a collector, so someone please clue me in here. These things sell for $55.00 to $75.00 every week. Granted, this one looks real nice, but come on, what gives. If you ask me, looks like two, or three, or even four fools, collided.

Mike McDaniel

Shhhhhhh!

Don Thompson - Cutler Ridge, Florida

>

Re: Yep, proxy *LINK*

walt Q

>Mike,

You have to look closely at the sole..a lot thicker than a regular 12 1/2..and also the mouth..a lot wider than a 12 1/2.

12 3/4 were based on a 12 1/2 body but the modifications were made supposedly to give the blade more spring...it really does do that.

no offence taken

walt


brass city

Re: Yep, proxy *LINK*

walt Q

>Clay,

no problem...I set a price in my head that I won't go over and stick to it. I've been up against bikerbeaner before and I didn't really think I'd get it...but, for me, it wasn't life or death...the one I picked up at a flea years before only cost $45

(shameless gloat)...I did keep a close eye on it at the end and your post explained a lot about what happened. Thanks for the insight...

Doubt if I'll change my bidding "style" for me it's just fun to see what happens.....

Now, if that would have been an Eclipse scraper...I think it may have gone a lot differently :-) then I may be asking you about this sniping software!!!

walt Q


brass city

Re: Yep, proxy

Clay C in Miami

>Walt,

Does the extra spring in your ($45 - yowch!) 12-3/4 versus a 12-1/2 help in use?

Make it more like a card scraper, maybe more sensitive to changes in density/grain direction?

Clay

Re: Yep, proxy

walt Q

>Clay,

Yes, it does give it more of a handscraper feel..lighter touch and seems to make it a little less finicky when setting up. I've tried it with heavier and lighter weight blades and the lighter ones seem to work better. You still don't get the "feedback" like you do from a cardscraper...but also doesn't tire your thumbs...

walt

Very Interesting Clay...

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA

>Thanks for the explanation and different scenarios.

That was fun!

Re: Yep, proxy

Todd Hughes

>Is very easy to make a 12 3/4 [book vaule $1500-$2500] out of a common 12 1/2 [book $50-$150] since it is basicaly a common 12 1/2 with a thicker sole and wider opened up mouth.The 12 3/4 is not marked 12 3/4 but 12 1/2 Was the ebay example really a 12 3/4? I don't know. Walters says in the Stanley book since it is so easy to fake you should examine the machining of the mouth closely and the bushings in the sole etc. Personaly I would be very hesistant to bid on this plane because of this. After all the seller was selling it as a 12 1/2. If you won it and it turned out to be in fact a $50 12 1/2 what are you going to do tell him you want to return it because you thought it wasn't what he said it was but instead was a 12 3/4 and worth $2,000?....I think it being such a crap shoot kept lots of bidders away from it......Todd