Which specialized hand tools to buy first?

Re: Which specialized hand tools to buy first?

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>IMHO, the number one thing that makes handmade furniture stand out over machine made is hand cut and fit dovetails, because they're easy to see and to recognize, and routers can't reproduce them. While some of the work can be done with a bandsaw, it leaves them a bit rough. Anyway, I would start with a good dovetail saw, some good bench chisels, a good quality marking gauge, a marking knife, a wooden mallet, a low angle block plane and some expert instructional material.

I have my preferences for the particular tools, but that's personal, and other people make better dovetails than I do using a completely different tool set. The woodworker's skill is more important than any one particular tool for quality and speed.

Find your way to the library

Bill Houghton, Sebastopol, CA

>There's lots of books on this subject. Go to your local library and check them all out (send a thought of thanks to Ben Franklin as you do).

If you find that a bit intimidating, Peter Korn has a good book on basic hand tool use (can't remember the title, but it's one of those obvious titles with "hand tool" in it).

You don't want the specialized tools first; you want the basic ones. Bench plane, block plane, good set of chisels, sharpening equipment, basic layout tools like a combination square and marking gauge, and a way to hold the stock in place on your bench (which may mean building/buying a workbench, as a lot of power shops don't have anything that resembles a workbench in the hand tool sense of that word).

Re: Which specialized hand tools to buy first?

Tim of Livermore

>I'd start with sharpening equipment. Most power tool cutters are either carbide and sent out for resharpening or simply replaced after mauling through thousands of board feet. Hand tool edges will need constant renewing and so a good sharpening set up should be included with the first purchase of any cutting hand tool(s).

I'm a fan of Shapton waterstones.....though I cannot seem to get that durn 1K hippo to cut....unless I go and borrow a friend's DRLP :-(.

Tim

Re: Which specialized hand tools to buy first?

MarkSmith

>This is an easy one. Put the belt sander and/or random orbit sander on the shelf and start using hand planes for surface preparation prior to finishing. Your life will be quieter, your shop will be cleaner, and you will noticeably reduce dust in the air.

Mark

Re: Which specialized hand tools to buy first?

Alan Hamilton

>Todd,

You didn't say what tools you have already, so it's a little hard to say what you ought to get first. But I'll assume you already have a smoothing plane, scrapers, chisels and various hand saws (and the tools to sharpen them).

If you want to use hand tools to do edge treatments, I would say to get a good combination plane (I can hear the gasps already). I don't like routers, and I haven't had to use one since I got a combination plane. I now have three, and the two I use will do all the edge treatments I want. As a bonus, they will also do grooves, rabbets and dadoes.

Alan

Re: Which specialized hand tools to buy first?

Adam Cherubini

>Not sure you're going to like my answer;

If you want to move away from power tools and:

a) get an intimate sense for hand craftsmanship

b) create items that exhibit hand craftsmanship

you need to unplug your woodshop as soon as possible.

I know folks don't think there their tablesaws and planers leave evidence on their work, but ...

So I'd start with the low hanging fruit:

1) dump the power jointer and buy a long try plane.

2) skip the tablesaw and buy a good rip saw or two.

These tools will take you very far.

3) I'd go for molding planes next.

4) Mortise chisels after that

The stuff I think you'd be stupid to unplug would be any sharpening stuff that works for you, drill press, chop saw, and band saw. Everything else you be better off unplugging.

5) Only after you get the mortise chisels, should you get the rest of the "bench" planes, chisels, special saws etc.

That would be my vote. Unplugging that darn table saw really forces you to change the way you approach woodworking. And i think that's teh biggest benefit of the neander way.

But let's say it this way- its not like choosing your gender. You can switch back later. Don't sell anything, just unplug it. Give the neander side a real chance and learn what you can. I'll tell you now- this was my plan. Start with hand tools, learn what you can, then you'll be better with machines. I found there was so much to learn I just haven't made it to the NORMal side yet.

Told ya you weren't going to like my answer,

Adam

Re: Which specialized hand tools to buy first?

Wendell @ Murphy, TX

>Adam,

I am curious why you have left the cop saw on the list of things to leave plugged in. What it is the benefit you see over a bench hook with a back saw?

Wendell

What tools to use?

Glenn Madsen in the SF Bay area

>I liked Chico's answer to this question, when it was posed earlier.

Use the tool that does the job the way you want to do it, with the limitations you have.

For most of us, that means a combination of methods. We're limited by time, space, physical abilities, skill sets, knowledge and understanding. Within those constraints, we try and ply our craft, whether profession or hobby. We try and produce pleasing results, and improve with each effort.

The purity is in the artistic result, the smile on the face of those who experience the work, the results and the possibilities of the next effort. It matters not if electrons were expended - did you put your heart into it?

(a user who has more invested in handplanes than in his cabinet saw...)

Re: Which specialized hand tools to buy first?

Thomas Skaggs, Foothills of Mount Level

>I'm a bit of a black sheep on this forum as I use both power and hand tools. I have however been drifting farther towards the hand tools as of late.

I think you are getting great advice from these hand tool pros so I can't top that. But I can only say that I rarely complete a project without having used a low angle block plane and a good set of bench chisels. Maybe you have those already but in case you don't, I believe they are essential. A good dovetail saw may be the third tool I'd recommend.

Good luck.

Tommy

Chop saws

Adam Cherubini

>I am curious why you have left the chop saw on the list of things to leave plugged in. What it is the benefit you see over a bench hook with a back saw?

Let's say it this way:

Planing is easy- you don't need much in the way of technique. I'd say sharpening is the technique you need to learn. And if you make a mistake with your plane, you can usually fix it with your plane, so you learn quickly. And while planes may encourage your use of hand tools, (they are the undisputed beginning of the slope) they don't make a dramatic difference to your project or approach.

You can replace your table saw with a rip saw and a try plane. If you make a mistake with your rip saw, oh well better luck next time and its on to the try plane to fix. But cross cut sawing is a bit different. You usually only get one chance at it. If you can't cross cut true and square, dovetailing will be harder, miters will be discouraging, etc. I practice cross cuts for this reason.

Once people are as good as you are Wendell, they will discover they can cross cut with GREATER accuracy than a chop saw. But I think that takes some years.

So I'd rather see a person go 90% with hand tools and be left with a project he's proud of and a project that wasn't so frustrating that he'll never try another.

I'm not sure my 10% of power tools are the right ones, but can you see what I'm thinking? Does it make sense to you?

Adam

Re: Which specialized hand tools to buy first?

Don Thompson - Cutler Ridge, Florida

>Tommy,

I believe that you are mistaken if you think that a majority of the posters in this forum do not use a mix of power and hand tools.

We just post about the power tools on the power tool or turning message boards.

Re: Which specialized hand tools to buy first?

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Sure, Don, and some of us don't consider power tool use worthy of any discussion at all. :)

Pam

Re: Which specialized hand tools to buy first?

Nemo Tools

>Thinking back on how I first fell off the slope, and what you describe as your goals, I think I would recommend a slick plane for corner rounding. This is relatively easy to use, meets the objectives you lined out and, as I remember, was the first neander object that I attempted.

The big fall off the edge of the slope is when you decide to unplug the table saw. This is major umbilical severing. First, you have to learn to cross cut, which isn't as easy as it sounds, to do it well. Then you have to learn to rip. And you also have to learn to plow, dado, rabbet and dovetail. All these require a complete rethink of your shop, your tooling and your skill set. But once a little up the learning curve, it becomes pure heaven.

Re: Which specialized hand tools to buy first?

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>On further reflection, I'd say that even though I use power tools on occasion, normally that occasion is basic milling to size. I never use power jointers or planers, since to me it is a miserable, boring experience to stand around feeding wood to a machine. Plus, there's too much wood lost in a power planer since snipe has to be accommodated.

However, I do use a table saw for ripping some pieces, some rebates, and I tend to use a CMS for through crosscuts and miters. It takes up about the same space as the Noblex and is much faster, probably more accurate. I do tenon shoulders by hand as well as final cut on most tenons. Big note here, the CMS was free, a prize drawing from Woodcraft. I'd never have bought one; but I do love it. For carpentry, both are invaluable. I bought a router and built a table for it when I started the house renovation but have yet to use it. While cope and stick is more or less convenient, it's not a very strong joint; so for the moment I cut regular m&t's by hand, use a spokeshave and/or plane for camfering, a hand plane for raised panels.

Perhaps the primary difference between hand tool and power tool users is in jigs and the like, none of which I use on the table saw or CMS. Instead, I rely on hand tools for that sort of joinery. It's just easier to cut dovetails by hand than setting up a jig, same with m&t.

Pam

Don't need no steenking chopsaw

Tom Price

>

If you want accurate 90 or 45 (or intermediate) cuts, get a Langdon type miterbox by Goodell-Pratt or Millers-Falls. You should have a pretty big saw in this thing so get one of the large models with a 26" or 28" Disston backsaw.

I set up mine with a jig so I could do repeated stop cuts. Here's a view of the hold-down side:






Here's a view of the stop rod side:

Here's a view of the back side showing the fixture holding the sliding jig:

I've got a shooting board but honestly don't use it much - I don't need to with the miterbox. No benchhook either, same reason. Best $33 I've spent.

- Tom

Re: Which specialized hand tools to buy first?

Patrick Gibbons, Bayou City, TX

>I don't make the decision which (hand or power) tool to use based on which is "better". Better is subjective. Power is usually, not always, easier to use, faster and requires less skill to tune up and maintain the tool. Like Adam, I started trying to improve my hand tool useage thinking this would be more difficult than power tools. After I mastered them I'd move on to power. I see now that the grim reaper will have me before I have mastered hand tools. It's a hobby. Start anywhere. Your needs will lead you on. In importance, the general operations of working wood are milling square and flat, measuring and marking, joints- in order- mortise and tenon, dados and rabbets, dovetails; assembling, glueing and clamping, and the most ignored, finishing. When I started learning how these are done by hand I started to realize what power tools are never necessary. (hint; it's those that make bogus joints). Ask yourself what you want to do by hand and get the tools you need to do it.

Re: Chop saws

Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)

>"But cross cut sawing is a bit different. You usually only get one chance at it".

Adam, that's why shooting boards were invented. Mine is always cleaning up after me!

Regards from Perth

Derek

Re: Chop saws

Jack Guzman from Maine

>Adam,I also found that puzzling.My chopsaw was one of the first power tools I learned to live without in the shop.I use it for deck building when I need to make numerous repetetive cuts.In my shop I have a millers falls miter box with a 26" backsaw across from my bench.It cuts accurate enough for most work.If I need sharper cuts I use a shooting board.The only advantage a power miter saw has is speed in my opinion.---Jack

Cross-cutting

mike recchione

>Adam,

I rarely disagree with you, but I have to this time. Accurate, repeatable cross-cutting is, IMHO, one of the easiest things to learn, and is invaluable for developing one of the most important skills for a hand-tool woodworker to have, i.e. the sense of square and plumb. I think that a few hours of practice can get you 95% of the way there.

And I completely disagree with the miter saw approach for most things. It's way too slow and fussy. I use one occasionally, but only for angles other than 90 degrees. Developing a sense for square is like training your ear to play an instrument, except much easier - we're born with a sense of square and plumb.

There's a trick I learned from something Pete Taran posted years ago somewhere, probably on The Porch. He made the point that it's very important to clean your saws so that they have a mirror surface. (Not necessarily silver-shiny, but they should show a good reflection). If you look at your sawblade when you're starting to cut a board, the board should look like it's continuing into the saw blade without a break. If the reflection looks straight, the cut is square in both dimensions (side-to-side and up-and-down). If it looks broken at the point it goes into the blade, then it's off. This works with a backsaw on a shooting board and also with a panel saw or whatever on a sawhorse.

Once you internalize this trick, then it's just a matter of learning to move your arm in the same repeated motion to keep the saw going the way you want it until the cut gets started the right way and the kerf guides it the rest of the way. This is where the practice comes in. But this is another fundamental handtool skill - the ability to make a controlled, identically repeated motion. You use it not only for cross-cutting, but also for sharpening freehand, boring holes with a brace or eggbeater drill and for any number of other things. You could make the case that it is THE fundamental handtool skill, and is worth a few hours of practice. And it's really not that hard to learn - it's much easier than learning to play the piano.

And for minor mistakes, there is always the shooting board :-) .

- Mike

you convinced me!

Adam Cherubini

>I agree with all of you. Looks like our new friend Tood needs a mitre box and some practice!

I have and almost never use a sliding compound miter saw. I don't like the dust and I don't think its all that accurate. But easy for me to say.

I was just thinking about Todd trying his hand at dts. You really need a nice square edge to begin with. A nice smooth surface is also easier to mark. If you guys think back, you'll recall a time when this was too much to ask.

I'm already telling the guy to give up his prized table saw and jointer. You guys are really worse than I am! You are all bent on world domination and you won't rest until everybodies' shop is unplugged and woodworkers everywhere are wearing the funny hats!

You better just give up all of your power tools Todd. This bunch just isn't going to leave you alone. Had I said you should keep your electric drill motors, half of dozen of these characters would be posting pictures of egg beaters and post drills and braces and bits of all sorts. They are all mad I tell you! MAD MAD MAD!

I thought Norm had is act together when I first encountered these madmen. And look what happened to me!

Adam

nursing a blister after 2 hours of broad hatchett work. Ok back to work!

Not me..

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>I love my chop saw.

Pam

First and foremost ...

John Snyder, Pocono's PA

>... a well crafted HEAVY joinery bench is paramount for hand tool use of any kind. Thats where I'd put my first money, and after that, buy a couple old planes (Stanley Bailey) and restore them - there's alot to be learned fixing up a plane - its not rocket science. Have fun & ask q's along your journey ...

JS

Let me gloat about my thickness planer.. ;-)

Don Thompson - Cutler Ridge, Florida

>

John, move to the head of the class ;>)!!

Frank Mutchler in Colorado Springs

>