WoodCentral Forums

Est. 1998 — 27 years of woodworking knowledge

converting a 604-1/2 to a Knight smoother (long)

Posts

converting a 604-1/2 to a Knight smoother (long)

#1

converting a 604-1/2 to a Knight smoother (long)

Moses Yoder in White Pigeon, MI

>I chose to go first in the planing contest, as I wasn't really afraid of getting beaten, and expected to learn a bit, which I ended up doing. I hope this was the first annual contest, as I think it is interesting to take theory beyond the armchair and see what the actual results are. We ended up deciding the thinnest shaving would win, with the length being a possible tie-breaker, and if there was still a tie we would go to a white oak board that threatened even my Hock iron.

I had been using a 604-1/2 smoother with a Hock iron as my regular smoother plane, and I chose to use it for the contest. I had never really checked the flatness of the bottom or done much tuning on it, so I started working on it last Sunday afternoon. I checked the fit of the frog; a Bedrock frog usually does not need any fettling in my experience, although I did not using bluing to check how it fit, I just set it on the plane and checked to see if I could rock it at all. As near as I could tell it fit flat. I checked the bottom of the plane next (with the iron installed) . The toe was higher than the rest of the plane quite a bit, as was the heel, with a small high spot in front of the mouth. By "high spot" I mean the spot in front of the plane was hgiher than the rest of the sole when the plane was set on the board for planing. I flattened the plane until there was just a small area on the toe and heel that wasn't contacting yet, but the area in front of the iron was nice and flat and there was a good sized flattened length of the plane, enough that I wouldn't have any problems with it rocking. I smoothed the cap iron, sharpened the iron, and went to work.

I found it difficult to make a lateral adjustment with the lever that was just right. I worked on it quite a while on Friday night, and finally figured out I would not use the lever and would just make the lateral adjust with a hammer. I found it fairly easy to get a shaving that was under .002, and after I was done on Friday night I was getting shavings that were consistently under .001 on cherry, measured with my Lufkin micrometer. I put the final touches on the iron, made a few more shavings, removed the iron and taped it to a board in hopes that it would not get banged against anything on the three hour drive in the morning.

I was looking forward to the planing contest, although the real highlight of the day was meeting a lot of people face to face that I normally only see online. The boards for the contest were set up, beautiful cherry boards with pretty good straight grain. I was confident that I would make a good showing with my plane, and figured I would give it my best shot and see what happened. Since I was the first to go, and I was pretty confident I could get a full length shaving that was what I was aiming for; a full width, full length shaving. I figured it would be pretty hard to beat, but wasn't really thinking far enough ahead. If I was to do this again, I would first use a jointer plane to flatten the edge, and then my smoother to get a shaving for the contest. As it was, I took a number of strokes on the board to flatten the edge, and there seemed to be a low spot toward the far end that I couldn't straighten. I ended up having to rewax the sole on my plane after a number of passes, as the plane started to show enough resistance that the supports rocked. I had left my wax in the car. I tend to not let much of anything fluster me, and I don't know if it showed or not but having a crowd of people standing around watching me plane a board flusters me. I got a little nervous, and set the dpeth of the plane a little deeper still in hopes of getting a full width and full length shaving. Of course my iron is getting a little duller with every pass, and I never did get the full length shaving. At one point I was getting pretty nice shavings, and probably thinner shavings than the one I submitted for the contest. It was kind of satisfying to hear the comments in the background, as there were a number of people there who had rarely seen what a sharp plane is really capable of doing. I ended up submitting a shaving that I figured was my best shot, but suffice it to say if there will be things I will do differently if I do this again.

The contest was judged based primarily on the thinnest shavings. I went first, so the other contestant knew what they had to do to beat me; get a thinner shaving. It was really fun to be done with my part and watch them do their best to beat me. I was up against stiff competition; a Lie Nielsen 4-1/2, 62, and another LN plane that I don't know the number of. With the criteria being the thinnest shaving with a minimum length of 12", I should have focused simply on getting the thinnest shaving possible, but had tried for a full length instead. I did a little figuring today, and I'm pretty sure if we had taken the length of the shaving in inches and divided it by the average thickness, with the highest number winning, I would have won and John Weber would have come in second with his LN 4-1/2. I averaged a .0014 shaving around 40" long I think. If we can make this an annual thing, it will be interesting to see how the competition grows stiffer and the rules evolve. I think it's a great plan and a great contest.

I have had my eye on the LV medium shoulder plane ever since they came out, and I just have to have one. I saw the LV large shoulder plane that was one of the prizes on Saturday, and wanted it. I figured on buying the medium shoulder plane anyway and having both the large and medium. The large shoulder plane that I saw Saturday is an awesome tool. I could write a lot of adjectives about it, but will just say that I plan on having one before the end of the year; perhaps it'll be what I buy myself for Christmas ;) I have wanted one for so long that I didn't look at the Knight smoother much, other than a cursory examination that left me impressed with the weight and workmanship. Mac ended up beating me in the competition, so he got the shoulder plane he wanted, and I ended up getting the Knight smoother.

I am used to Bailey planes, and adjusting the woodies is much harder for me, the Baileys work okay for me, so the Knight smoother is not something I would ever have bought for myself; until now that is. I am seriously impressed with this plane. I have had my hands on a Clark & Williams smoother, and was impressed with how well it works. I have an early Knight smoother that is a nice plane, but I haven't used it much after the initial setting up and trying it out. The smoother I won yesterday is a whole different plane. It is farily easy for me to see how Steve has progressed as a plane maker; the way the wedge on this smoother tightens and locks the iron into position is a whole different story from his earlier plane I have. I looked the plane over this morning; purpleheart body, and I think it has a lignum vitae sole and mouth wedge; correct me if I'm wrong Steve. The body is filled with lead to make it heavier. The iron is bedded at 60�. I was trying to figure out if the extra weight would be any advantage, until I used it today. After thinking it over I figured this plane was made for smoothing difficult woods, so pulled out a peice of curly maple this afternoon after sharpening the iron that we had abused yesterday. The iron locks into position well and adjusts well; it will take me some time to get used to it, and the high bedding angle makes it more difficult for me to get a paper thin shaving, but I found it fairly easy to adjust to work well. It made very short work of the curly maple with 0 tearout. After playing around with it some this afternoon, I am very thankful I didn't win the competition and get the shoulder plane instead of the Knight smoother; there must have been someone up above watching out for me ;) This is an awesome plane, and I will use it every time I am faced with a difficult board to smooth before I reach for a scraper, and may not even need my scraper any more. After it acclimates to my shop in a few weeks I'll flatten the sole and put it through it's paces to see what it can really do; I'll have pictures and perhaps a longer writeup at that point. If you read all this, I hope you can see how pumped up I am about planing, and hopefully come out and try to beat me at next year's competition. Thank You to Steve Knight for an incredible plane.

Re: converting a 604-1/2 to a Knight smoother (long)

#2

Re: converting a 604-1/2 to a Knight smoother (lon

Frank D. in Montreal

>Congratulations Moses,

glad you came in second! Now that you got Steve's plane, you can come in first next year.

It sounds like you guys had a lot of fun. I know what you mean by people being surprised when they see the shavings a hand plane can make. I participate in and organize an annual planing contest too. Last year we had a good fifty or sixty spectators all going "aaahhh" when the shaving came out. I was even handing shavings to the kids, I felt like a hero. Anyway, it's a great way to meet people and show them what hand tools can do. Even the guys who worked at the power tool stands couldn't believe the finish that the plane left on the wood, and they all wanted to give it a go.

Thanks for the play-by-play, I enjoyed it.

Frank

Re: converting a 604-1/2 to a Knight smoother (long)

#3

Re: converting a 604-1/2 to a Knight smoother (lon

Steve Knight

>it is pretty cool to have people see how a plane can work. I would really like to go out and show people just to see the looks on their faces. I have only done it a few times but it is pretty rewarding.

Re: converting a 604-1/2 to a Knight smoother (long)

#4

Re: converting to a Knight smoother fan

Glenn Madsen

>So far, I have only one of Steve's planes, a coffin smoother in Padauk, at 50 degrees. It's a tool that begs for gnarly woods.

It's a joy to use, on the right projects, and fits right into the tool shrine, next to the other twenty or so planes, holding it's own. There are no Bedrocks there, but a few LN & LV, to go with the older Stanleys. My next planes will come from Steve...

Re: converting a 604-1/2 to a Knight smoother (long)

#5

Re: converting a 604-1/2 to a Knight smoother (lon

Don Thompson - Cutler Ridge, Florida

>Good show, Moses. What vintage/type/kind of Bedrock is it that you have?

Re: converting a 604-1/2 to a Knight smoother (long)

#6

Re: type

Moses Yoder in White Pigeon, MI

>Not sure what the type number is on that plane. It is the worst looking Bedrock plane you have ever seen. The bottom is badly pitted, one cheeck is cracked, and it has huge holes pitted into the sides. Jappaning = 0%. I sanded and oiled a good tote and knob for it, and put in a new Hock iron and new vintage Stanley cap iron. It has the large brass adjuster nut that I really prefer for ease of adjustment, and with the top of the frog waxed good and a little brass hammer for lateral adjustment it works well.

Just to clarify to a response above, I came in third, not second.

John Weber was there with his LN 4-1/2. That is one beautiful plane, and I'm afraid if he learns how to use it he'll beat me next year. Guess I'll have to see if there is room on the credit card for an Anderson infill. I halfways expected to be competing against infills, but all the serious fanatics must be on the coasts.

Re: converting a 604-1/2 to a Knight smoother (long)

#7

NIce post Moses

Ray Thompson - Middletown,IN

>Being the first year we really didn't know where to go with the rules, but we learned a lot and will have a formula for next year that will be more fair for longest and thinnest. Several folks have offered to take the data from this year and develop something, so everyone start practicing for next year.

Ray

👍 This page answered my questions

Your vote helps other woodworkers quickly find the answers and techniques that actually work in the shop.