Workbench Survey

Re: Workbench Survey

Patrick Gibbons, Bayou City, TX

>I think a bench should be easy to reach over and suggest something about 9" to 12" wide. One needs to be able to plane long boards so 12' to 16' is not out of the question. A three inch wide trough is quite good but I think it needs to be more accessible so I believe it is better placed in the front of the bench. It needs to be deep- at least a foot deep. The top should be thick and very stable. A top of 15" thick concrete slab (reinforced with rebar) should be useful and cover it with a 2" layer of cork to protect the slab from hammer blows. As for vises, I find there are never enough of them and they are handy to have at every corner. I would put a tail vise on every lengthwise corner and a face vise at every corner perpendicular to the tail vises. I would also put a saw-filing vise in the middle of each end. A good machinist vise in the center and an anvil at one end is not out of the question. To support all of this the bench should have steel I-beam construction. My own bench is similar to what I have outlined above but is much stouter- I think after a year or two you will outgrow the hobbiest bench I have outlined above and will be ready for a more professional style.

finish for bench

Jack Guzman from Maine

>What kind of finish do you put on the cork? Also what method do you use to drill dog holes thru the concrete?---Jack

Re: Workbench Survey

R.J.Whelan

>Robert,

After many years using a traditional style bench - 8' x 30" with a 3-1/2" beech top and heavy four leg support with face vise and tail vise - I was faced with moving my shop to a new location (much larger building) and I decided to build my last bench.

Looking at my needs critically I came to a couple of conclusions:

1. 3' of the top was almost always used as a place for my coffee cup and a collection of tools and clamps that should have been put away when I was done using them.

2. The area under the bench was wasted space as I didn't want to store anything that I'd use frequently in such an inconvenient location and I didn't want to look at clutter from infrequently used tools and materials.

3. There are a number of small tools (block planes, rebate planes, screw drivers, egg beater, scrapers, etc.) that I'd like to have at the bench - I work sitting down a lot of the time (bad knees).

4. I don't like to assemble on my bench and then have to move the piece out of the way to do fitting on a drawer, etc.

So here's my final bench(s):

1. 5' x 30" x 3-1/2" beech top (original top minus 3') - tail vise (sounds short I know, but I don't often work long material) - twin screw face vise (very convenient for vertical clamping wide boards for dovetailing) - board jack for the rare occasions when I work long material.

2. Storage under the bench - 2 doors covering an open area with two adjustable shelves; 4 drawers with custom dividers provide access to frequently used small hand tools.

3. A 3' x 8' assembly table - stress skin construction keeps the weight manageable and provides plenty of stiffness. The top sits on substantial saw horse type supports. Sometimes I use the saw horse by themselves and the top is stored in the vertical wood rack.

After seven months working with this arrangement I'm still in love.

Disclaimer: I am a full time professional woodworker using a combination of hand and power tools so the romance and aesthetics of the traditional joiners bench hold little appeal for me; my concern is efficiency and convenient workflow.

Hope this helps .... rj

Re: Workbench Survey

Jim in Burlington Ontario

>My bench is 3" thick red oak has a tool tray is 24" wide and 8' long and rectangular dog holes. Has a tail vise and the front vise is a Wilton. If I get around to making another one it will be 2' wide 10' long with no tail vise and 2 face vises and no tool tray. My tool tray is full of junk all the time I never use the tail vise much prefer to use just a stop and will put all my dog holes in after I get to using it. The top will be 3" thick and made of maple. Lumber's in the shop for a year now just need to get some time.

Re: finish for bench

Patrick Gibbons, Bayou City, TX

>You form the dog holes when you pour the slab. That way there's no drilling. I finished the cork with 10w 40.

Re: Workbench Survey

John Jesseph

>Kind of lightweight, though. You shouldn't let someone build such a meager bench the first time...

Re: Workbench Survey

Robert L.

>I just finished building this bench about an hour ago to your exact specs. I thought it sounded idiotic-----I was soooooo wrong. Since it is way too good for me even after a 20 year love affair with wood working and design, manufacture, and sales of my own line of furniture, I would sell it to you or your buddies. Cost .02, a really good deal for you really great wood workers in the know.

Can you experts also provide some advice on how to put a perfect blunt cutting edge on my plane irons. I am positive that you all must have already discovered the profound benefits afforded to a user of a perfectly blunt cutter. If not, I highly reccomend you immediately head to your shops and grind the cutting edges of your irons until they turn blue with heat and they are perfectly square with the face of the iron. Be sure to check for square with your perfect L.S. Starrett squares and then check for flatness across the back of the cutters with your L.S. Starrett Precision Straight Edges. Oh yea, also get out your L.S. Starrett Micrometer to check that the face of the cutter is parallel to it's back. Once perfect bluntness is achieved, take those LN plane bodies to your local machine shop and ensure that the mouth of the sole is machined to be a two inch opening. For ultimate success, be sure to change the machine screws used throughout the assembly of the plane body to wood screws. Of course you experts know that if you are planing wood, wood screws must be better.

Re: Workbench Survey

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>OK, Robert, we've got some serious ragging going on here; but after all, you are the one who asked detailed questions before reading the book. You get points for ordering the book, though. :)

Pam

Re: Workbench Survey

Angus Barclay, in New Zealand

>Preferences are for one of the Cadillac benches I see here on WoodCentral, all made out of beautiful maple, walnut and cherry.

Reality is a short and ugly bench made almost entirely of pine, with a 4 inch thick top. Face vice is a Record 51.5 on the left end (I'm right handed) and the "tail vice" is a sliding dog system made from a cheap quick-action clamp.

Major working surface is only 60 inches long (couldn't fit anything bigger in my shop) and 20 inches wide. Full-length tool tray behind the work surface is 3.5 inches deep and about 8 inches wide. The tool-tray bottom slides out of the way to increase clamping versatility. I fitted drawers underneath the bench but use them less and less and nowadays about the only thing I keep below belt height in my shop is my pants, my boots, and the piles of sawdust and shavings.

I'll post pictures later if you want (of the bench, not my pants or boots).

regards

Angus Barclay

Hey Robert

Patrick Gibbons, Bayou City, TX

>I already blunt my plane blades and I've been getting two inch thick shavings for quite some time now. I have a real problem, though, trying to get wood thick enough to plane down.

An Apology

Patrick Gibbons, Bayou City, TX

>Robert, after reading my original post again I have to admit that it can easily be taken as a put down. I want to apologize to you. I really was only intent on being funny. It was early in the morning and my weird sense of humor got the better of me. I did not intend to be insulting though I think that's how it turned out. I hope you'll take the humor and forget the nastiness. Patrick M. Gibbons

same here

Jack Guzman from Maine

>Robert,when I read your response I regretted mine.I was reacting to the humor.The post was in no way about you.If it had been,it would have beeen mean sarcasm.People who frequent here don't act that way.That's one of the things I like about Woodcentral.I'm sorry if you took it the wrong way.--Jack--in no way an expert

Tool tray name

Jim Reed @Tallahassee

>Tool tray is a misnomer. It should be called a shavings holder.

Re: Workbench Survey

Robert L.

>No apologies necessary! I appreciate the jest! I also apologize if my response was taken out of its context. I can't help but to laugh when I go back and read the silly posts but they can easily be misconstrued. Happy woodworking!!!!!

Your preferences would still be very much appreciated.

Re: Workbench Survey

Dean J in MN

>

Decisions for FIRST workbench - what are your preferences for the basics

Well, you didn't say what you are going to use the bench for. It makes a difference. Do you use machines to do stock prep? If not, be sure your bench can both face and edge joint long boards. Are you going to cut moldings on a router/shaper? If not, make sure your bench is long enough to stick long runs of mouldings. Are you making case pieces? If so, make sure you bench can hold a wide carcass side to cut dovetails. How do you plan on cutting dados?

I could keep going, but those are the types of questions you need to ask yourself. How you plan to use the bench makes a big difference on what bench will work best for you. You note this is a first bench, I say keep it as simple as possible. Learn how you work, and see how you can get that simple bench to work for you.

-Dean

Re: Workbench Survey

Adam Cherubini, NJ

>Robert,

Sorry to see things getting off to a bad start for your post. We've had lots of discussions about benches here. While we don't all agree on bench design, I think MOST agree the work bench is an important tool worthy of careful consideration.

I think your mention of a FIRST bench is a wise one. You may or may not be a beginning woodworker, but you most certainly will go up a steep workbench learning curve. I'm glad you recognize the hill before you.

So here's my advice: Try to do as little as possible. Get some long planes, and build something nasty out of framing lumber and deck screws. You could laminate 2x6's together to make a 3" top (yes flatwise) and it needn't be more than 18" wide. Your long planes can easily flatten whatever you end up with.

I recommend an 8' bench, though I work on a 6' bench (don't like it though). You can use a dry wall screw as a planing stop. Get some Jorgensen hold fasts from Highland Hardware (does LV carry them?) and 2 huge wooden jawed parallel clamps. Make the legs flush to the front and you'll have a good start. If you don't want to laminate, add more legs! You could put four 4x4 legs across the front and two in the back. Don't make an apron. Too hard to clamp to.

After 6 months (or weeks), you'll want a new bench. But resist that urge and wait another year. You'll have a completely different idea of what you "need" by then.

And just so you know, I'm not a fan of the workbench book. I've been very critical of it here in the past. I think its unscholarly and misleading and that's my opinion and its totally debatable. You'll probably love it. The best benches IMO, are the benches not discussed but shown in the paintings and on the cover.

Specific answers for your poll:

- What size bench top-thickness x width x length?

1-1/2" min x 18" min x longer is better (I recommend 8-9' since we typically buy 8' lumber and its nice to put that up and plane it whole.)

- Tail vise style?

None!

- Front vise style?

None! Crochet or holdfast holes will work. 2 hand screws (parallel clamps) will also work. What do you really need that thing for anyway? What does it do that you can't do with a couple holdfasts and clamps? Is it a must have or a nice to have. I can say the average record face vise gets in the way of at least two operations I think are essential (if you know what they are, you're way ahead of the game).

-Round or square bench dogs?

None! A homemade wooden block is an acceptable stop (ala Wmsburg) or you can use a dry wall screw. Otherwise, no dogs or dog holes are needed. You'll need a few (3-5)hold fast holes in the top. Ask Dean where they go.

- Tool trough - yes or no?

No never. Tool toughs are for factory workers. Do you wear a blue gray uniform smock with your first name over the pocket when you work? Do you carry your lunch in a plastic lunch box and a thermos of coffee with you? DO YOU? ANSWER ME! (see- this subject makes us silly and edgy)

Anyway, that's my vote. Good luck and search for pictures of Dean's bench. PW recently put out an issue devoted to workbenches. While my dream bench wasn't represented, I think this is a much more thoughtful look at the subject than Landis' coffee table book. Dunbar did an article for FWW a couple years ago and as I recall that had some good ideas in it (Think he had a plywood back section). Rumor has it there's more in the PW mill on the subject. Lastly and by all means, search our archives for this topic.

Good luck and forgive our wackiness on this subject. Know that were you to ask something like "What's the first handplane I should buy?" you'd get a similar response. There are no good single answers to such questions.

Adam

Re: Workbench Survey

Joel

>- What size bench top-thickness x width x length?

8/4" maple can plane up to 1 7/8" by hand - so that would be my minimum. thicker is better my main bench has a 3" top.

- Tail vise style?

European L shaped - the tack on another vise at the end is a waste.

- Front vise style?

A big record - what out for the clones - not all have a real smooth action and no plane like a vice should have.

- Round or square bench dogs?

square for the tail vice

- Tool trough - yes or no?

NONE NONE NONE - my small bench has a tray - what a mistake.

More important than what's above:

Planing stops

Holdfast holes

I find myself using the face vice very little. The tail vice slighty more Holdfasts and planing stops ALL THE TIME.

Re: Workbench Survey *LINK*

Wendell @ Murphy, TX

>I'll echo Adam's statements about the bench Dean posted. If you're interested mostly in using hand tools, this bench really covers a lot of operations with simple, efficient solutions. This bench will be one of the models I use to build my next bench.

Wendell


Dean's Bench Post

Tool tray pros and cons

Angus Barclay, in New Zealand

>A few of the posters above have railed against tool trays, pointing out that they do little other than collect shavings. Sometimes I would agree but most times though, I find a good deep tool tray is very useful. It depends on the design of the tray, the size of your bench, the size of your shop and the way you work.

Where do you put down the scrub, jack and jointer when dimensioning stock? Where do you put your square, ruler, pencil, marking knife, marking gague, backsaw etc when marking out and cutting joints. In my case they all temporaraily live in the tool tray when I'm doing the task that requires them close at hand.

If you have a bench the length of a carrier deck (not uncommon) or a shop with lots of spare uncluttered surfaces to put things down on (very rare) then you probably won't find a tool tray as useful as I do. If your bench or shop is a bunch of compromises like many of us face, then you need to think about where you put the whole set of tools you use for any particular task. You'll be using one or two at a time but have half a dozen or so that you need at your fingertips. The answer is that the set of tools being used for the immediate task at hand lives in the tool tray where they are protected from bumps and scrapes, can't roll or be knocked to the floor and yet are no more than 2 or 3 inches away from the timber you're working on.

Cleaning out shavings and sawdust is a very easy task with brush and pan or brush and ramps. Putting tools away after the task is completed is a good discipline. Both are a very small price to pay for the ease of work possible by having the right tools at hand and the peace of mind that comes from knowing that have NEVER knocked any of my precious tools to the floor.

regards

Angus Barclay

Re: Workbench Survey

Todd Stock

>I come down firmly on the side of being able to actually clamp stuff in vises, versus balance stuff against stops, dogs, etc., so the traditional Euro bench with shoulder vise and conventional tail vise works for me. In terms of what I found in the 20+ years between the first and second bench:

- Go bigger than you think you need (8' is a good start for length between dogs at full extension...longer if you have room). Short benches are handy for carvers and kids.

- Wider than you think you need (2' minimum if you get talked out of a tool tray)

- Heavier than you think is appropriate (300 lbs is a good target); start with a massive base, then go from there.

- Bolts work as well as wedged tenons for the trestle joints and are knock-down.

- Tool trays should be deep enough to take a #4, but easy to sweep clean. A removable bottom (like the Lie-Nielsen bench) allows clamping and way easier cleaning than the traditional approach; however, decent ramps or a 2" gap with a cover near the center work fine as well.

- Everyone has an opinion - or in the case of Wood Centralians, several opinions - on what constitutes an ideal bench. For a first bench, I'd stick with something big, heavy, and traditional. Use it for a few decades, then upgrade.

Re: Workbench Survey *LINK*

Alan Bierbaum

>You have received many good answers. Everyone has an opinion; and tend to disagree with each other in the process. The real answer depends on your use of your bench.

Check past postings (over the last year roughly) here for more information that you can possibly digest.

Adam's advice of starting with anything, since it is your first bench, and using that as a learning experience is good advice. Better advise is to try and determine what your bench must do; and start with that information. You will probably change your mind about what you need and want.

The link below will take you to my thoughts about my bench and show some of the things that I like, and dislike, about it.


My bench in use

Re: Workbench Survey

Robert L.

>Thanks so much for your replies and the links.

Learning about others preferences in web forums is always insightful and a great compliment to the many written materials available. Happy woodworking!!!