WoodCentral Forums

Est. 1998 — 27 years of woodworking knowledge

power assisted tool grinding

Posts

power assisted tool grinding

#1

power assisted tool grinding

bill tindall

>There are a variety of machines for rapid metal removal for tool sharpening and shaping- the traditional vertical wheel bench grinder with and without speed reduction, horizontal wheel grinders, extra slow speed grinders with water cooling, and coated abrasive disk and belt machines. Some ingenious arrangements have been recently posted for tool rests for belt grinding. Two of the stated goals of all these machines is to provide cooler grinding and improved finish over the traditional vertical wheel bench grinder. I will show below that the traditional bench grinder with the proper wheel is superior to all these alternatives for shaping tools as well as edge preparation prior to honeing. A more complete version of this information was submitted to WC Articles and awaiting posting.

Coolness of grinding- A sharp abrasive particle mills a sliver of metal from the tool and much of the heat resulting from the work to generate this sliver leaves with the sliver (the shower of sparks from a properly cutting wheel). A dull grit ploughs across the tool surface leaving much of the heat deposited in the tool. So, the key to cool grinding is sharp abrasive particles.

Three wheel properties are most important to achieve cool grinding.

Particle Friability- Different grinding procedures are done with more or less pressure of the tool on the wheel. Tool shaping could involve heavy pressure on the wheel. On the other hand, little metal needs to be removed for edge preparation prior to honeing, so this operation is done with very light pressure. This pressure must break small pieces from the abrasive particle to continuously expose fresh cutting edges. Obviously, a very friable particle is necessary to break under light grinding pressure. Most commercial grinding involves moderate to heavy pressure so it follows that the proper grit friability for finish grinding is uncommon, but such grits are readily available in surface grinder wheels.

Grit hardness- All common steel grinding wheels are aluminium oxide or a modification of this material. At Rc 60+, tool steels are the hardest steels commonly ground. Again, the common wheel grits, white for example, are not optimum for tool steels, but there are abrasive particles formulated expecially for steels like we use in tools, for example blue, pink and ruby.

Wheel bond- Fracture of the abrasive particles to expose new edges can't go on for ever. Eventually it is desirable to be rid of worn grits and expose new ones. Exposing new grits is accomplished by formulating the adhesive the holds the grits together to form the wheel such that grits break off at some rate as pressure is applied to the wheel. Softer wheels expose grits at a faster rate than harder wheels (here soft and hard refer to the wheel bonding material not the particle hardness).

Summary- With a friable particle, a hard particle and a soft wheel bond, sharp particles can be made continuously available for cutting the steel at light grinding pressure. As a result these wheels run cool. One can grind right to the edge of a chisel even at 3600 rpm and there will be no burning of the edge. Material removal is rapid, perhaps too rapid at 3600 rpm for inexperienced hands. A slower speed grinder provides more control. A proper wheel cuts so fast that there may be no practical advantage to a normal speed grinder.

Coated abrasives, for example belts and disks, are at a disadvantage over wheels. Coated abrasives are formulated for heavy grinding pressure so their particles don't easily fracture to expose new cutting edges, a problem with light pressure grinding. And, there is but one layer of particles. When this layer is dull there are no fresh, sharp particles underneath to take their place. Under equivalent conditions (speed and pressure) coated abrasives can not grind as cool or fast as a proper wheel.

Finish- There is no need to grind finer than 60 grit prior to honeing. The edge of a chisel, for example, can be ground to within a wisker of the edge. If the tool is ground to the edge but not beyond, the initial straightness of the edge remains. So there is no disadvantage of a 1" wheel over a wider abrasive format. A few strokes on the popular water stone, or other honeing format, quickly removes enough metal to establish a fresh cutting edge because the hollow grind left by the wheel means only a tiny amount of metal needs to be removed at the edge. In any case, most common honeing stones rapidly remove 60 grit grinder marks.

In summary, a bench grinder with a proper wheel is cheap, fast, cool, easy to master and it leaves an adequate finish prior to honeing. I would add that a good tool rest, homemade or the Wolverine, is essential for tool grinding. If your grinder doesn't grind cool, you have the wrong wheel for the job at hand.

A cheap Delta variable speed grinder, Wolverine tool rest, and a 1" Norton G 25A pink 60 grit wheel is but one of many suitable assemblies that will meet the need for tool sharpening and shaping. In any case the wheel should be described as suitable for light material removal (light grinding pressure) and hard tool steels. Manufacturers literature will provide this information.

Re: power assisted tool grinding

#2

Re: power assisted tool grinding

Joel

>Bill,

I'm glad you wrote this up and I look forward to reading the full article. I have subscribed to the same point of view for years and routinely grind everything. The only comment I would make (which I assume you agree with ) is that dressing a wheel frequently is important to keep that sharp abrasive visible. And (this is arguable) with modern steel alloys a little heat isn't a problem and you can be more agressive than ever before.

Also hollow grinding speed up the honing.

Re: power assisted tool grinding

#3

Friability and belts

Bob Hackett

>3M has had a product out for awhile now that offers this feature in a belted abrasive.The particles are bonded together into clusters and then applied to the belt.

It`s strange to see a 120 grit finish coming from what appears to be a 40 grit belt but that`s what the product does.

Mainely,Bob

Re: power assisted tool grinding

#4

Re: Friability and belts

Steve Knight

>I doubt it's cost effective though.

there is give and take in grinding. I find belt sanders are far faster then any other grinding method. I can really rip off the steel but you pay the price in that you use up more belts. it's the typical speed verses cost issue.

Re: power assisted tool grinding

#5

A a good point to add

bill tindall

>Given all the machines ($$) invented just for tool sharpening, I was distracted from believing my ancient bench grinder provided the best solution to the task, given a proper wheel and tool rest. It was a long journey to come back to the first thing I ever tried, most unsuccessfully! with the hard, tough, grey, and totally unsuitable wheel that comes with bench grinders.

Others could be hampered in implimenting this simple solution because with one exception, our woodworking tool vendors don't offer an optimum wheel for tool sharpening. One must search the metal working sources to find them. It would seem that this could be an exceptional marketing opportunity.

As you so correctly state, wheel dressing can be critical if the wheel bond does not shed grits at an optimum rate. Actually, I find that I never need to dress my Radiac wheel (RAA80H) unless it is to reshape it. I have less experience on the Norton G25A but it appears it will not need dressing either. (I recently purchased the Norton wheel just to comapre to the Radiac but have not yet used it much other than to see that it does not burn edges)

Re: power assisted tool grinding

#6

Ooops

bill tindall

>this was supposed to be indented under Joel's post but some how I fumble fingured the entry.

Re: power assisted tool grinding

#7

Re: power assisted tool grinding

George Bustamante

>For me, a belt grinder, with a few modifications or accessories is a far more useful and flexible tool than a bench grinder.

A belt grinder can do everything that a horizontal bench grinder can do and a lot more. The reverse is not true. If I had to choose between one or the other, the choice would be easy.

Also, not everyone wants a hollow grind on their tools.

I am putting on my flame suit now...

George Bustamante

Re: power assisted tool grinding

#8

Re: A a good point to add

Joel

>Bill,

I like to think that the Norton 3X wheels that we stock are a pretty darn good wheel for tool sharpening. I have had a 60 grit one on my grinder for over a year and it's the coolest running wheel I have ever used.

(It's an SG technology but I don't know the bond or the hardness)

They do need periodic dressing which isn't a big deal.

Re: power assisted tool grinding

#9

Hollow grinding

Luke Herzberg

>I've never liked the idea of hollow grinding either, but then maybe I think the earth is flat too.

Has anybody ever made up a jig to present the chisel to the round wheel face so that the length of the chisel and the wheel axis are coplaner, with the chisel moving up and down (it's sideways now) across the horizontal contact line with the wheel?

Or did I just blow my own mind?

Luke

Re: power assisted tool grinding

#10

Don't disagree......

bill tindall

>And I don't know of any other woodworking source for a wheel ideally suited for finish grinding.

Ruby is a moderate pressure wheel, good for shaping. White can be ok but not best for high Rc steels and nobody sells one soft enough, G or H. The Norton 5C ceramic are for heavy grinding pressure. And those are the choices I know about unless one goes to a metal working catalog for surface grinders. And these wheels are not perfect shape for bench use (8" x1" widths), but can be made to do.

Re: power assisted tool grinding

#11

And your advantages are?

bill tindall

>Hollow grinding enables one to go from 60 grit grinder scratches to finished edge with but a few strokes on at most two "stone" sizes. I use 15 and 1 micron diamond; others use use water stones, etc. The advantages are cost and speed. What are the disadvantages of hollow grinding?

Thre is little doubt that few people will abandon a successful sharping procedure that they have used for sometime. But what should be recommended to persons new to the task?

Re: power assisted tool grinding

#12

Re: Don't disagree......

Joel

>what do you mean by finish grinding?

I take it from your post that you think the 60 grit 3x wheels are a great choice for overall tool grinding but are you saying the 60 grit is too coarse for lathe tools and things that would be ground to a finer texture. I would agree and we are awaiting our first production shipments of 46, 80, and 100 grit wheels.

Re: power assisted tool grinding

#13

Re: And your advantages are?

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>For some tools, hollow grinding has serious disadvantages. Hollow ground skew chisels kill. That's putting it a little melodramatically, but lots of turners have had very bad experiences with skews and won't use them because they don't have the tooling to flat grind them.

Carving gouges in general work much better with a convex grind, and I find them to be utterly uncontrollable with a hollow grind.

Re: power assisted tool grinding

#14

we agree on lathe skews

bill tindall

>Can't comment on the carving but indeed a skew is best not ground with a pronounced hollow grind. Never-the- less I shape skews with a bench wheel and grind some of the hollow out with diamond plate.

It is not for lack of sharpening that many turners fear the skew. Learning to use a skew is like exploring crudely written software, or walking on thin ice. The consequences of "crashes" encourages one to want to cease trying. I took a class with Nick Cook just to begin to overcome the skew "fear factor". And then I observed Nick turning a large cherry ($$) post base and he reached for the gouge to do the bead, not the skew. Hummmm, I said to myself. But the skew does have essential uses.

Re: power assisted tool grinding

#15

Don`t forget mortice chisels

Bob Hackett

>

Re: power assisted tool grinding

#16

Re: And your advantages are?

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>That's the same technique I use to get my skews flat. After the bevels are flat, I have to watch everyone carefully to make sure that they take them back to the grinder and ruin all that hard work. I also have to be sure I keep them sharp, to reduce everyone else's temptation to take them back to the wheel.

'm not very good at cutting beads with the skew. I use it mostly for final shaping and smoothing of cylinders and cylindrical shapes with a little entasis (slightly convex), and for cutting v-grooves and for parting off. I really need more practice at using them to making beads.

Re: power assisted tool grinding

#17

Round Skews master bead work *LINK*

Greg Betit, Crown Point NY

>My experience with beads is on Windsor chair turnings. Touchy-feelie, slow-go, get too cocky, and WHUMP! (another ruined turning). I got a round skew and zooma-zooma, alakazam, wow.

Greg -getting "poetical" this evening, I think I'll stop posting.


Packard 1/2" round skew

👍 This page answered my questions

Your vote helps other woodworkers quickly find the answers and techniques that actually work in the shop.