Alone in the Garage

Re: Alone in the Garage

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>That's a great story, Dave, thanks. Maybe we should make this a new WC contest. I loved the way he left the loglet attached for a hand hold. BTW, I think he didn't cut the entire form with that huge saw, no way he could have made the bend, nor started from the handle end. I also doubt his time estimates, it's so easy to get involved and not that many clocks around.

But Sir William makes treen for a living. How long does it take, William, to make a spoon?

Pam

Re: Alone in the Garage

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>I just make forks and knives and spatulas. For a living, OTOH, I mostly fix old chairs, and usually have to start by pulling out the well intentioned, but really stupid nails, so I make treen for stress relief. Now that you and Dave have thrown down the gauntlet, so to speak, I guess I'm going to have to see what I can manage to accomplish. Worse, I guess I'm going to have to pay attention to the clock while I'm doing it. If the Neanderbuddy laughs at me while I sweat over the bowsaw, should I just unplug it? I have some well seasoned branch madrone that has a spoon or two hiding somewhere in it. Maybe, I should start with something eaiser. Although I didn't see him mention it in his chisel handle missive, I'm sure Dave has some thoughts on its workability.

$80.00 or $8.00?

Don Thompson - Cutler Ridge, Florida

>At the start, you wrote eighty, and later it shrunk to eight! ;-)

BTW, what were you going to use to hollow out the bowl of the spoon?

Spoon Making Contest

Jim Crammond in Monroe, Mi.

>Islanders,

Pam said "Maybe we should make this a new WC contest." I agree with Pam, it sounds like a fun, quick project that would be a good vehicle for learning some new skills.

We should set up some ground rules, let everyone have at it and report back. It would be interesting to see the different approaches, the time it takes everyone and the results.

Jim-who has been looking for a final shove to make some spoons and a use for some apple firewood donated by Wood Central chief clown, Cooper Suter.

Re: Alone in the Garage

Ernie Miller Topeka

>How big a spoon was it? can I use popolar? Just your basic pot stirin spoon made of wood? I say we set the timmer and have at it when the timer gors off we stop and show what we have. if we finish sooner we make a note of our time. Most of my wifes spoons are about 2 1/2" wide and not real deep I wouldn't think it would be that hard. I'm in.

Re: Spoon Making Contest

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>I watched the dvd again last night. Turns out he uses a small half log to start, which should make it a lot easier to get that deep depression in the spoon. I'll try one today or tomorrow, let you know how long it takes me.

Pam

Re: Alone in the Garage

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>His was deep and big enough to hold a pancake's worth of batter; so I'd guess that's our only requirement. If you make real tiny pancakes, ....

Pam

Re: $80.00 or $8.00?

dave caudill

>It was 80.00 but it might as well have been 800.00 because I didn't quite make it. I have since made two spoons but with a little help from the bandsaw. I roughed them out and then did the rest using drawknife, spokeshave, gouges and chisels. Still an enjoyable exercise and each one turns out just a little bit different. Of course I'm still using the apple which makes a very nice spoon.

Ernie they are probably 12 to 14 inches long and I'm not sure as far as quantity. I'm not sure they would hold enough to make a pancake that would fill me up but they are a pretty good sized pot stirring spoon.

And William. I'm thinking if you are going to use madrone you better not be in a hurry. As a friend says about it, Its harder than a woodpeckers face. You break a sweat working that stuff. But I'm guessing that you will get a wonderful spoon and maybe a fine weapon.

Dave

Re: $80.00 or $8.00 Spoons *LINK*

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>There are $8 spoons and there are $80 spoons. For some inspiration, I offer the art of one Barry Gordon, who has written at least two articles on spoon making for Woodwork magazine and has a website as well. His first Woodwork article discusses various power tool and hand tool methods and tool sets for making them.

Barry Gordon Woodcarving

You can download the articles in PDF from the "Teaching/Resume/Articles" section of his website. Well worth the read.

I'm in

Adam Cherubini, NJ

>Jim,

Count me in. I have some apple and I'd like to make some spoons. But I haven't seen this show you all have been discussing and I have no clue about how to make a spoon. I seem to recall an old FWW article about a Swede making a spoon with a knife. Or was that Drew Langsner?

I think you and Pam should write up a little webpage, not unlike the hand tool challenge. (which needs ressurecting). It should include basic instructions, though not necessarily plans, and a list of tools or banned tools and a time limit.

This would be a great opportunity for us to sharpen our drawknives and spoke shaves and gouges.

Always wanted to make a spoon.

Adam

Re: I'm in

Scott in Douglassville, PA

>This would be a great opportunity for us to sharpen our drawknives and spoke shaves and gouges.

And scorps and travishers and scrapers... ;)

Re: I'm in

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>Adam, follow my link below, to a downloadable article, spoonmaking.pdf, with some very useful instructions.

I'm not a really competitive kind of person, but I will at least give it a try, and see what I can contribute to our common experience in this new "challenge". I've seen and used lots and lots of cheap imported wooden spoons, so I'm not interested in just finding out how quickly I can knock off the minimalist "holds soup" tool. If it takes me longer to make something of beauty, so be it.

Competition

Adam Cherubini, NJ

>I'm not a really competitive kind of person, but I will at least give it a try, and see what I can contribute to our common experience in this new "challenge".

Yeah, let's underline that since that's exactly how I feel. I'm sure many of the hand tool challenge participants would say the same thing.

The goal is learning.

Machine tool bans force participants to develop hand tool techniques. In the case of my challenge, I banned some hand tools to force guys to work a certain way. (without straight edges for example). This had a lot more to do with encouraging a certain way of working rather than imposing any historically accurate rigor (though not everyone understood or agreed).

Time limits are helpful because they convince people of the inherent practicality of hand tools (because even some people here don't believe it) and force participants to challenge preconceived notions of efficiency and tool use. In Dave's case, the time limit drove him to using (successfully) a hatchet which he probably wouldn't have turned to otherwise. That's precisely why the time limit is an essential part of this and why it has nothing to do with competitiveness.

I think this is an exciting and unprecedented formula that works, but we mustn't ever allow ourselves to lose sight of the point- this is all about individual learning. When the participants choose to share their experiences, that learning can extend to the greater community.

(Haven't checked the link yet) but how long do I get to make the spoon and what tools do I need?

Adam

P.S. Ellis: Now I see what WC's challenge page should look like. It should be all encompassing, gathering guitar stand projects, an 18th c. case, 17th c joint stool (ala John Alexander), a wooden spoon etc. We could just add new "modules" for a how host of woodworkers and include some lessons learned gleaned from participants and resulting poignant forum threads. Whaddya think?

Sounds good to me.

Dan Donaldson

>

Re: Competition

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>OK, but this isn't really a contest so much as a demonstration. The rules are to make a wooden spoon that can hold a pancake's worth of batter with hand tools alone. Make note of how long it takes you, but aim for an hour. It will run through next weekend, ending at midnight, Sunday, 4/10, post photos and stats here.

How's that, Adam?

Pam

Re: $80.00 or $8.00 Spoons

dave caudill

>Wow those are some fancy spoons! I made a couple decent spoons that would stir gruel or make soup sipping a reality but they didn't look anything like this guys.

I'll keep trying.

Dave

Re: Competition

dave caudill

>Well I'm going to be real interested in how everyone does. I hope I'm not put too much to shame. I think a big factor in this is what species of wood you use. If you use apple you will definitely need sharp tools.

One thing I've found is that the final refining to make it look good after you've met the functional goal is what takes the most time. I made another last night and can also see that like anything after a couple tries you can visualize what you want and know how to get there much more efficiently.

For me its just a real good opportunity to use some of the tools that I haven't had out lately. It also as Adam mentions is a good time to make a point of sharpening all of those tools while they are out.

I'll post a picture of what I did in a couple days.

And Pam you asked how I compressed photos. I basically do an image resize in PhotoStudio5. If I had a website I could post a better set of pictures. Maybe I'll talk with a friend who has a site.

Good Luck everyone. I'm glad my initial post got this rolling. It should be fun.

Dave

Great story...

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA

>But,I don't know about this spoon making contest...

Thanks for sharing it.

Re: Handtool Exercise

Jim Crammond in Monroe, Mi.

>Adam,

I don�t have the location or expertise to put this on a webpage, but maybe it could find a place on your proposed Wood Central Challenge Page.

Since this originally started with Dave�s wife�s challenge to him, let�s use that as a starting point. One hour to make a spoon using only hand tools. To simplify the project, the ubiquitous wooden, manufactured kitchen spoon could serve as a model, approximately 12� to 15� long with a bowl approximately 2 �� in diameter hollowed out to a depth of ��. More exotic examples are certainly encouraged but not necessary.

The WOODWORK article that William pointed out is a great place for a beginner to start, so let�s incorporate a few of the author�s, Barry Gordon, recommendations. Species is not important, but to function as a spoon the wood should be a diffuse porous, moderately strong hardwood without any known toxins. The wood could be green or dried and from the most convenient source whether that is a firewood pile, the scrap box or your lumber shelf.

Because this is the Hand Tool Forum and the source of the idea was �Alone in the Wilderness�. let�s limit the tools to non-powered tools only. These could be any of the following (but not limited to): axes, froes, hatchets, scorps, travishers, drawknives, spokeshaves, handsaws of all types, planes, rasps, floats, sandpaper, scrapers, chisels, gouges, etc. I think the only limit should be that it is a handtool.

I agree with you that it is instructive to set a time limit, this gives everyone a goal and has an influence on methods of work. Because it is a learning exercise, the more people that report back to everyone concerning the approach taken, the tools used and the results given the time frame helps to give a prospective to the exercise.

Jim

Re: Competition

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>I certainly hope you'll be playing, Dave. After all, you started this.

As to PhotoSudio, I don't know it, suspect it's some sort of Windoze stuff, so afraid I can't be of much help. You may want to root around and see if they offer something like a web ready function.

Pam

Tools

Kevin Adams

>I haven't posted here much, but this caught my eye. I checked out Barry Gordon's article and he appears to use lots of power tools in his process. An hour is pretty tight for making a (finely finished) spoon with hand tools, but if anyone is interested "tools of the trade" would include a small carver's hatchet, a small adze, and then some crooked knives and/or gouges. Drew Langsner's site gives some great tips for carving bowls (that's basically what a spoon is after all) and also has some tools on there. http://www.countryworkshops.org/

I'm partial myself to the products of Kestrel Tool off the coast of Washington State

http://www.rockisland.com/~kestrel/

Not that anyone would have time to order stuff at this point, but if you end up liking the process this might be helpful. I'm not sure I'll have time to get something done for next weekend, but I'll give it a shot. I use these tools mostly for Windsor chairs, but also have dabbled with spoons and bowls.

Have fun!

Kevin Adams

Re: Handtool Exercise

dave caudill

>I would add that if for some reason you do not finish your spoon in the alotted hour you make a note of where you are and even take a picture if you can, and then keep track of the time it does take you to finish.

And Pam why do I have to do this again? I've already failed miserably and don't know if I could take the added dissappointment. If I failed again bleed myself out during the exercise I might be temped to do myself in with a dull gouge or blugeon myself with my drawknife.

I'll see if I can work up the courage. Not to mention find a softer piece of wood!

Dave

Mixed media? Wood only?

David Barnett

>Adam, handtools only, of course, and I do realize this is a woodworking AND handtools forum, but as long as there's wood significantly used? Or wood alone? I lean toward mixing materials but I'm amenable to either. Would like your thoughts on the matter... an early ruling, perhaps. Thanks.

Gasp!, ONE HOUR??? Never mind, heh.

David Barnett

>Like that'd ever happen. Right.

David (who lately ponders between tool strokes when right-braining)