*** SPECIAL GUEST CHAT TONIGHT: BOB LANG *** *LINK*

The struggle between power and hand tools

Christopher Schwarz

>�We have just completed our machinery for making Windsor chairs � so that we can almost � throw whole trees into the hopper and grind out chairs ready for use.�

� Ebenezer M. Ball in 1851

�The modern trouble lies not with the use of machinery but with the abuse of it.�

� Gustav Stickley in 1906

There is a tension in the woodworking community between those who favor power tools and those who favor hand tools. And this dichotomy has roots that run deeply through the Arts & Crafts movement of the early 20th century.

The popular press often paints the Arts & Crafts movement as a philosophical revolt against the soul-grinding industrialization of the late 19th century and the shoddy goods it turned out. Indeed, John Ruskin and William Morris � the spiritual leaders of the Arts & Crafts movement � encouraged a return to hand craftsmanship.

But most of the manufacturers of Arts & Crafts furniture turned out their products in the type of mechanized shops that Ruskin and Morris railed against.

What role should power tools have in our work today? Can we learn anything from the Arts & Crafts movement and the struggles of its craftsmen 100 years ago to help guide our present-day woodworking?

Join us at 9:30 p.m. tonight for a deeply practical discussion of handwork and power tools in the modern shop. My guest is Bob Lang, the author of �Shop Drawings for Craftsman Furniture� and three other Arts & Crafts books. Bob also has many years of professional woodworking experience in commercial shops and has watched this struggle first hand.

Even if you�re not a fan of Arts & Crafts furniture I think you�ll enjoy this discussion that gets to the very heart of what we do in our shops and how we do it.

Clash of titans

Eric Hedberg

>Ouch, such heady and profound thinking so early in the morning (CST). Now I'll spend all day in the shop reflecting on this as I pursue my art, or is that craft. Eric

Re: The struggle between power and hand tools

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Chris, I don't really want to talk about hand tools vs machines anymore. Do you think you and Bob could focus on the effect using machines had on the design? And what were the design goals?

Thanks,

Pam

Re: The struggle between power and hand tools

Ron in Kokomo

>We have beat this one hard over on the pond and here. I think it was Mr Duffield, or was it Garret Hack?? who said it best for me. There are some operations that can best be performed with hand tools. For example I don't care how good your jointer is... an edge joint will be better because of the application of a well tuned jointer plane immediately prior to glue up. Delicate dovetails... For those operations use the hand tool. There are some operations where the power tool excels.... i,e ripping a lot of stock or thicknessing same.. Use the power tool for that.

Other wise it is a matter of personal preference or circumstance... and little is gained by another chat session. Just my $.02

Let the games begin!

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA

>This should be juicy...

Arts & Crafts Design

Christopher Schwarz

>I'm sure Bob would be more than happy to talk about that issue.

My (much simplified) perspective on it is that when Gustav Stickley designed his line of furniture it was removed of ornament to reflect William Morris's ideals of having "cottage furniture" that should be made "of timber rather than walking sticks." (This, of course, ignored Morris's ornate "state" furniture, which I also really like).

Stickley's furniture was designed from the get-go to be made by machines. Parts and joinery were standardized in size to make it easy to manufacture. What was important to Stickley was that the resulting object be well-made and saleable. The process was less of an issue.

Then his competitors saw his stuff and ripped it off because it was so easy to make by machine. And some of them didn't care one bit if it was well-made. Applied through-tenons. Dowels. Worse.

So the designs of American Arts & Crafts furniture (with a few notable exceptions) were driven almost entirely by machine processes.

English Arts & Crafts furniture was much more varied, however. You have Sidney Barnsley, on one hand, who would fit right in here on this board. And you had manufacturers such as Liberty and Heal, who were more like Stickley.

Hope this gives people something to chew on as they consider whether they'll join us this evening.

Chris

Re: The struggle between power and hand tools

Bob Lang

>Whatever anybody wants to ask about, we'll try to respond to. I think it's interesting how hand tools got pushed aside for awhile in some areas, and how their use is coming back.

Looking forward to it,

Bob Lang

Pleasure or Profit

Todd O. Cronkhite Maine Native in FL. Exile :~(

>Seems quite simple to me. In an age where Life is VERY expensive a craftsperson would certainly have a tough time supporting more than a spouse by using only handtools. Now if the craftsperson was simply involed in the craft(WW in this case) just for personal pleasure and so desired to use mostly handtools or powertools than who's to argue either way?

Seems to me that Brian Boggs and Chris Beckersvoot both use mostly hand tools and seem to be doing alright $$$ ways, but they would be by far the exception to the rule IMO. If a person can afford to attempt to build a reputation and find a niche in the "Made with only handtools" market thgan I think s/he could do right well as well, but I fear most wouldn't be able to survive long before being force to use powertools to speed up the processes of their product.

It is sad to realize that most Americians are so indebted that they now do not own their possesions, but are owned BY them. I guess that once we decided as a whole to go the "Materialistic" way we gave up alot of our Freedom to do as we'd like and do as we MUST.

I am so glad that I haven't fallen very deeply into that trap.

Todd O.

Re: The struggle between power and hand tools

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Yes, that is very interesting; but most hand tool vs machine discussions don't take that route. :)

BTW, I think the return to hand tools has a lot to do with cancer.

Pam

Re: The struggle between power and hand tools

Todd O. Cronkhite Maine Native in FL. Exile :~(

>Pam,

Why do you think the return to handtools has to do with cancer?

Todd O.

Re: The struggle between power and hand tools

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Some federal warning about cancer and sawdust a year or so ago.

Pam

I think Not.

Ernie Miller Topeka

>I think it has more to do with a harmonizing of the soul. The effects it has on ones ability to relax and slow down for a minute in lifes hurried society. I would be willing to bet that a verry small percentage of hand tool users changed there habbits because of Cancer. Interesting thought though

Re: Pleasure or Profit

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>Obviously, you have not been introduced to Brian Boggs' machine for converting hickory bark into components for woven chair seats.

Re: I think Not.

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Hand tool use doesn't make the type of saw dust that's harmful for the most part, it's the power tool users who would have to add all sorts of heavy duty dust collection systems.

Pam

The need to feel in touch

Glenn Madsen

>with the process helps hand tool use to be more enjoyable. The quiet helps, too, after 'noisy hours'.

The need to keep away from the sharp, spinning parts makes the machining of the parts highly focused, but promotes adrenaline and close attention.

Certainly, both have their place in my hobby shop.

Re: I think Not.

Todd O. Cronkhite Maine Native in FL. Exile :~(

>Yeah, you're right Pam. I do now recall where sawdust was rated as a carcinogen. (sp)I had forgotten about that. Also agree that it is the powertoolers that are at risk the most as their sawdust is much finer than from handtools, and is more violently thrown ot only at them, but into thier immediate atmosphere.

Thanks for the reminder

Todd O.

Re: I think Not.

Ernie Miller

>I understand that part of it but I don't think that is the major driving factor for people using hand tools. just an extra benifet. I could be wrong again

Maybe not, but...

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>I've noticed a much higher participation here and on saw mill creek by first time hand tool users conincident with the announcement.

Pam

Hmmmm....

HC Sakman

>This field creates enough passion that the effects of sawdust are ignored by many, unless there's enough of it that becomes nuisance; then people start to think about dust collection.

Sorry Pam, you may truly convinced to the anouncement coincidence, but I don't think so.

I think the popularity of hand tools and vast media coverage are guiding many newcomers to the hand tools. Obviously nothing is wrong with that.

As far as "items that cause cancer" announcements go... Well... I would not be surprised if they say Perrier can cause cancer! Therefore effect of these type of new cancerogen (sp?) matter (item) announcements really loss their effectiveness. Almost everyday scientists come up with something new that is bad for your health. I'd be more worried about the chemical fumes we inhale while we sleep in our bedrooms.

Of course they are certain type of people who follow these news and they are very self-concious and they may use hand tools intentionally to avoid extra dust. These kind of people do exist, I know that.

Bottomline, not worth arguing any further. Also this is a dusty job. No matter what kind of tool is used. Let's be realistic.

Chico...

Re: Maybe not, but...

Ernie Miller Topeka

>Which announcement are you refuring to? It seems to me that OSHA made the relationship back in the late 60's. It most definatly a deciding factor for some people. I'm just glad You and I like to play with the hand tools. Check out the pictures I posted on the power forum last night of some turnings.

Re: Maybe not, but...

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>I seem to remember an announcement by something like the surgeon general about a year ago, some body that would get a lot more play than osha.

Pam