WoodCentral Forums

Est. 1998 — 27 years of woodworking knowledge

Finishing: favourites, alternatives

Posts

Finishing: favourites, alternatives

#1

Finishing: favourites, alternatives

Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)

>I am in the process of finishing off a Loft bed for my son, made from (some sort of) pine. This is the nicest pine I have worked with for a long time - hardly any knots and a creamy texture. It has been a pleasure since most of the time I work with Aussie hardwoods.

Regardless of the type of wood, usually I am able to get the timber surface to a state of shine and minimal tearout. Usually there is a plane in my arsenal that is just right for finishing the job. On the pine it has been my LV LA Smoother (in high angle mode) and a tiny Mujingfang mini smoother (to take care of the tearout around the knots and small sections of reversing grain). The result is a near-flawless surface that gleams as if is has been burnished.

Finishing timber has always been my weak area. I usually go with shellac and wax, or Danish oil and wax. Yes, I like the feel of a smooth surface. Occasionally I need to stain, such as with this pine, and I use the Prooftint range that dissolves in methylated spirit (alcohol). I will use several thin coats until I have built up the colour I seek.

All this tend to leave me with a sense of dissatisfaction, as though I have either not done justice to the project and timber, or screwed it up at the last minute.

Mostly I wish that I did not have to finish it beyond the planing stage.

So what are your experiences, thoughts, feelings and recommendations in the work you do?

Regards from Perth

Derek

Re: Finishing: favourites, alternatives

#2

Re: Finishing: favourites, alternatives

R.J.Whelan

>Derek ... I do a fair number of country pieces (in pine) where I paint the base with milk paint and the top is finished with one of the following: amber shellac; analine dye (amber/yellow) followed by blonde shellac and varnish; Minwax golden oak followed by blonde shellac and varnish. The analine dye and Minwax can get blotchy, but I can usually control this by prewetting with alcohol (analine) or mineral spirits (Minwax).

Good luck with your project ... rj

PS - I actually like finishing .... go figure.

Re: Finishing: favourites, alternatives

#3

Re: Finishing: favourites, alternatives

Angus Barclay, in New Zealand

>Hello Derek,

I reckon the job of creating a truly beautiful piece of furniture, box, bowl (or whatever) is only half done when the woodworking ends.

You wouldn't buy an unpainted car, clothes held together with pins, or an un-cooked meal in a restaurant.

Finishing is as important to fulfilling the full the creative potential of woodworking as it is to many things in life. Learn to love finishing and you may discover an even deeper appreciatioin for your own woodworking.

cheers

Angus Barclay

Re: Finishing: favourites, alternatives

#4

Re: Finishing: favourites, alternatives

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Since I started using Japanese planes, thus getting a great burnish on the bare wood, I've been less fond of finishing, there's something very appealing about the plain old burnished. And I love finishing, was the second woodworking thing I ever did.

Pam

Re: Finishing: favourites, alternatives

#5

Re: Finishing: favourites, alternatives

GolfSteve in Calgary

>Derek, I know your pain. I hate finishing, but it really is as important as the woodwork to the quality of the finished piece.

The few things I've made of pine I have finished with polymerized tung oil, and have been happy with that finish. About five coats rubbed on will give the pine a nice glow.

I've dabbled with Maloof finishes, and I think I'm going to give this a try on one of my next projects. It looks just as good as the Tung oil, but with a bit of poly in it I think I will get better long term protection.

I've hardly use any stains (except orange shellac) to alter the colour of the wood. I have been playing with using sodium hydroxide to artifically age woods such as cherry, mahogany, and pine. The downside to this is that the aging solution is water based, so the grain becomes raised, wrecking that burnished surface you worked so hard to create with your plane. If I'm just appling an oil finish I don't like wrecking that burnish - although I'm not conviced that the finished surface is any better if it is hand-planed vs. wet-sanded with 1000 grit when you are applying the oil.

If I'm applying a film finish (such as shellac), then I think the surface quality of the shellac is more important that the surface quality of the wood, so I wouldn't worry about raising the grain or doing a bit of sanding.

With small tabletops, such as side tables, I've become fond of (and detest) French polished shellac. I love the look, but always find two thousand ways to screw it up. Luckily it's easy to repair, so eventually I get a great finish, but getting there is painful.

I've also become fond of grain filling. With an oil finish on woods such as cherry or maple, I wet-sand a few of the oil coats. This fills the grain very nicely. With woods such as oak I've been leaving the pores open.

The above rambling are what I've been dabbling with, and completely ignore what a professional would recommend. Sam Simpson has been writing some great responses to other questions which include info on glazing, alcohol based dyes, colour depth, clarity, etc. Do a search of Sam's posts and you'll find a textbook of information spread throughout a hundred posts.

Re: Finishing: favourites, alternatives

#6

Re: Finishing: favourites, alternatives

Sam Simpson

>Hi Y'all,

Derek, I can certainly understand your reluctance to go further with a project when your diligence with hand tools have delivered you to such a satisfying place. I'm a furniture maker and a finisher. And I have learned to approach the problem from different angles, there is certainly no one approach that is right for all occasions.

At the outset of my career I was taught that wood needed to be protected from it's users. What you have been doing so far achieves that goal, and there would be nothing wrong with continuing down that road. Sometimes even less is required of a finish. Objects of art that will never be handled often require finishes that will enhance the appearance of the wood, and protect it from deterioration, but nothing more.

We are too often bombarded by thoughts of those finishes that are designed to capture a "look," these are finishes that use stain and hard surfaces to emulate something that exists on other pieces. Today's new mahogany for instance doesn't look very good, but an old chair made of old mahogany that has matured by being used over the years looks great. So we develop finishes to emulate the mature look of the wood. Professional furniture makers need to get pretty good at these types of finishes, but if you are making furniture of your own design and for your own use, it is not necessary to do anything that delivers you to a point you don't like.

Probably what you should be thinking about in terms of finishing, is matching the finish hardness to the hardness of the wood surface. This will provide the best long term protection. And for utility pieces, a bed certainly is that, you should consider upkeep. Such things as cleaning, and the eventual reapplication of finish. Will your finish provide for this?

As far as the individual or small shop is concerned, nothing much has changed about finishing in over 300 years. All of these new fangled plastic finishes where not invented because the old finishes where no good. The deficiencies that where found in the old finishes that spawned the invention of new products has more to do with time and application. What the furniture manufacturer wants is a repairable finish that is lightning fast to apply, dries and cures instantly so it can be stacked in a truck and shipped right off the end of the assembly line. That is what has driven the finishing manufacturers. And you shouldn't feel bad if you don't want to buy into that stuff.

Personally, if you buy a piece of my furniture it is going to come with a combination finish of nitrocellulose lacquer under-layers (to provide a quick build of the colour matrix) and French polished surface, (to provide a surface off of which the light reflects most pleasingly) unless you give me good reason not to. I also prefer to use wax as a final coating, and in cases of extreme conditions will even use auto waxes.

Finishes are all about utility and appearance. Even on the very finest inlaid satinwood museum pieces, the finish is still all about utility. Take for instance a box that has had that beautiful burnished look that you describe, so that the chatoyance shimmers in the light. Left unfinished it will quickly revert back to having a flat appearance that does not shimmer. This is because the moisture that is all around us will lift and cleave the grain, the light will bleach it out and if no care at all is taken of it, it will soon look like drift wood.

So your only question is, am I protecting what I see, or am I trying for a look that I don't yet see? Either way, there are finishing answers.

Regards Sam Simpson.

Re: Finishing: favourites, alternatives

#7

Re: Finishing: favourites, alternatives

Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)

>My thanks to those who responded here.

Pam, you and your Japanese planes were in my conscious thoughts as I was writing the original post. I know that they give you the same burnished finish, and that there are some Japanese practices of not finishing timber beyond this stage.

Sam, I know that the timber cannot be left without a protective coating. A good finish well done will enhance the timber grain, which is what I am trying so hard not to obscure. A simple shellac coating does this, and often I don't look further than this.

My feelings about finishing probably mark for me a point of evolution in furniture building, or should I say, in my skill standards. I think that I have got (only!) just skilled enough to feel that the stuff I build has real promise, and to have developed a conscience about its longevity. So now I need to pay as much attention to the area of finish as the other areas. And as Angus intimated, this is really a journey of discovery, one of exciting possibilities.

Many thanks

Regards from Perth

Derek

👍 This page answered my questions

Your vote helps other woodworkers quickly find the answers and techniques that actually work in the shop.