Est. 1998 — 27 years of woodworking knowledge
draw knife
les winter
>Any of you have input on using and sharpening draw knives? I read Dunbar's book where he recommends using it bevel up with a tiny backbevel. Dunbar says to avoid using it bevel down, but doesn't say why. Drew Langsner says to use it bevel down.
I'm using mine on green wood to build windsors.
thanks
Les
Re: draw knife - long
JL work
>Sharpening it - the best luck I have had is with either diamond stones or water stones. If you have a steady hand, you can clamp the knife and "strop" the stone across it. If you are somewhat of a klutz like me, you put the stone or plate down on a mat (or whatever you use to grip) and go for it. I usually flatten the back first on a coarser stone and then proceed to do the bevel. I typically take the knives up to about 4000 grit on water stones or extra fine on diamond stones. One trick is to add a touch of ammonia to water and "spritz" your diamond stone occasionally.
As for using it bevel up or bevel down - it depends on how big a bite you want and how much control you have - you can do it either way. It depends on how you feel. You can think of it as a chisel or as a gouge. Chisels are usually used bevel up, gouges bevel down.
I typically do it bevel down and skew it slightly. I feel that it gives me more control.
My $0.02.
Re: draw knife - long
William Duffield, on the Cohansey
>I use my drawknives, my chisels and my gouges both bevel up and bevel down, depending on the particular cut I'm making. Bevel up or bevel down works for planes, too, but there you usually don't get a choice :^)
I clamp one handle of the drawknife in my face vise, and sharpen it with diamond and Arkansas stones.
Re: draw knife
Greg B�tit
>Its funny Dunbar poo-poohed bevel down in his book. I believe the configuration currently favored by Mike's Windsor Institute is a knife edge. These knife edged draw knives have a slightly rounded bevel on both sides, so whether the tool is up or down is affected only by the angle of the handles with the edge, if any.
I think it is safe to say that most draw knives- at least the ones on the used tool market, have a flat side and a beveled side. I believe these tools are made for working along the grain to smooth and dimension flat stock such as shingles, or to make straight chair parts such as spindles. From my experience a flat side is superior to bevel down or a knife type edge in these applications- flat, smooth grain running in one direction.
Many of these older draw knives have the handles angled enough to make bevel side down use uncomfortable. Bevel side down gives you more flexibility and control in concave curves, or better response if you are working difficult grain. Picture a piece with a section of grain like that which is found around a limb junction. As you work the grain quickly transitions from uphill grain to downhill grain. Ideally you're working the knife downhill, so you want to work one side of this section, turn the workpiece around and work the other. Bevel down you can quickly stop the cut with a slight pull up on the handles. With the flat side down you don't have as much ability to stop the cut exactly where you want. Many people with a lot of experience using a draw knife don't even think about which side they are using, instinctively switching from one side to the other as the need arises.
My favorite draw knife has one bevel, and handles that I can adjust. Typically I adjust them slightly below the plane of the flat edge, not so much of an angle that I can't turn the tool over and use it comfortably when I need to.
It is nerve wracking to hollow grind an edge of a draw knife. Luckily it is something you shouldn't have to do too much. I don't know of any way to do this but freehand. I once paid a saw sharpener to do this and he desecrated a wonderful C. J. Kimball draw knife. I use sandpaper and the scary sharp system to polish the flat edges, and oil stones for the bevel edge and periodic touch ups. I find that if you touch up the edge with your finest stone every time you finish using it, the edge stays close to razor sharp. But occasionally the diamond stone gets brought out, with a progression of less course stones in its wake. I use oil stones because I like the idea of leaving a thin film of oil on the tools.
Greg
Re: draw knife
Tom Price
>I've tried it both ways and bevel up with Dunbar's back bevel wins hands down, IMHO. Better ergonomics, better control on slicing cuts, etc.. Most drawknives I see have the blade in the same plane as the handles and it makes a lot more sense to be pulling with the blade, not at an angle to it. You need the back bevel for better control and to be able to 'pull out' of a cut. Dunbar is no fool...
- Tom
Re: draw knife
les winter
>How big a bottom back bevel do you use?
Sharpening...
Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA
>If you choose to put the drawknife in a vice to sharpen, wear gloves and be carefull...DAMHIKT.
Re: draw knife
kees
>he's no fool.......but is working now with dried wood and so needs another kind of knife.
Watch the book of Drew Langsner or the video of John Alexander. With real, fresh wood no need for a back bevel.
kees
Re: draw knife
Dave Caudill
>I use mine both ways depening on what type of cut I want to make and how ageesive a cut I want to make. I do bevel up for a finer touch and bevel down for a more agressive bite. I think you should practice and see what works for you.
As far as shapening goes I think we have all experienced the type of draw knifes we find on the used market. Some of them have been used quite hard and the edges are a mess or those sharpening them have really created some interesting shapes for us to work with. I finally go fed up trying to gring mine with the double wheeled grinder as it always bumped into something. My solution was to freehand the beveled edge using a dremel tool and then finish it with stones while the handle is clamped in a vise. The back edge I do flat by running it over my waterstones.
They do like the knife edge at the Windsor Institute but that doesn't mean its the best method judt the one they prefer. Used drawknifes are realtively cheap try a couple different methods and see what works for you.
Dave
Re: draw knife
Tom in Tipp
>Tom,
I've got an older one that Conover Tools used to sell with the handles in the same plane as the blade. I use mine bevel up, as you describe. I feel I have much better control this way but I have a single bevel, flat back.
Tom
Re: draw knife
les winter
>thanks to all for the advice.
regards
Les
Re: Make a block to hold it
Dave Mount
>I made a special block to hold my drawknife while sharpening. I took a piece of 2x4 about the length of the blade and used the t****saw to run a kerf through the face of it. The kerf is as wide as the blade is thick and set at an angle so that when the drawknife is set into it and the block is laid flat, the desired plane for the bevel is horizontal. Put the knife in the block and clamp it in your vise, then use a hand-held stone to sharpen. With the proper sharpening plane in the horizontal, it's pretty easy to maintain your bevel angle by eye.
Works for me,
Dave
Hold it like a fiddle
Greg B�tit, Vergennes, VT
>I haven't had any trouble resting one handle on my left shoulder, holding the other handle with my left and applying the stone with my right hand.
I think this arrangement gives me a little more stone-knife interface feedback than holding the draw knife in a vise.
Re: Hold it like a fiddle
Dan Donaldson
>I would probably manage to cut my throat if I did that;-)
Draw knife back bevels
Tom Price
>Les Winter had asked:
>>How big a bottom back bevel do you use?<<
About 5 degrees. Dunbar says around 2 degrees or so and Leonard Lee recommends 5 degrees. You have to make sure that the bevel is at, say, 15 or 20 degrees to compensate for the back bevel in the included angle.
- Tom