Dovetails

Re: Dovetails

Dan Donaldson

>Marking gauge, bevel gauge (or homemade/purchased DT angle gauge), mallet of your choice, appropriately sized chisels, marking knife, decent dovetail saw, and a solid surface to chop out the waste. Perhaps a coping saw if you lean that way.

Most woodworkers have all of this except maybe for the saw.

Re: Dovetails

Adam Cherubini, NJ

>You forgot some way to hold a board vertically. Some woodworkers have a Record style vise that would hold a small board (like a drawer side. Holding a wide board (like a carcass side) is more difficult.

So I was wondering of anybody wanted to get together and make a mini webpage about work bench design. I don't like my bench but I do like my wooden twin screw vise. Maybe we could each contribute a small write up and a few digital pictures. Anybody?

Adam

Re: Dovetails

Dean J in MN

>I'm in. And I even have a digi camera for a few days...

-Dean

Re: Dovetails

John Clifford

>The most important tool IMHO is a good saw. I've found that the one thing that makes or breaks a good dovetail joint is clean sawn tails and pins and you won't get those with a bad saw. Also a good saw will make the sawing easier. I have a Lie-Nielsen and it's awesome. I've also had my eye on an Adria and a Spehar, not that I need another dovetail saw but hey, it's not about need right?

Re: Dovetails

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>There are as many ways to hand cut dovetails as there are amateur woodworkers. There may be fewer ways to do it if you have been through a strict traditional apprenticeship. The tools you "need" depend a lot on whether you are doing pins first or tails first, through or half blind, Oriental or Occidental traditions, etc.

Here is a list of the tools I use for through and half blind, tails first, Western tradition: I've tried lots of others before I settled on these. This list is MINE, it is not the BEST way, not the RIGHT way, not the ONLY way. You don't need new, expensive, top of the line tools to do the job, but you do need tools that work well.

For rough layout of tails, and marking stock (top, bottom, left, right, inside, outside, back, front, drawer #, etc.): A homemade hardwood 10� bevel gauge, similar in function to the LV aluminum saddle gauges, for rough tail layout. (A Stanley #25 adjustable bevel gauge also works, and is long enough to lay out the large dovetails you will need if you build a traditional Klausz or Fridd style bench.) A small ruler (Starrett 6" marked in eights, sisteenths, thirty-seconds and sixty-fourths). A ball point Pilot P500 pen. Some people get good enough to do most of this by eye with the DT saw.

A homemade cutting gauge, to transfer the thickness of the pin board to the end of the tail board, and vice versa. There are lots of choices for wooden and metal ones that work well. You would probably be happier with a wheel type metal gauge.

A sturdy bench, with a face vise that will hold your stock on end, facing you, with the edge at about elbow height. I prefer a Record 52 with hard maple jaws, because I find it's quick release mechanism to be the most efficient.

A Lie-Nielsen dovetail saw.

A set of Lie-Nielsen bench chisels, 1/8", 1/4", 5/16" 3/8", 1/2" 3/4" (1" on order), and a translucent hard Arkansas stone with oil to keep the chisels sharp.

A homemade hardwood mallet.

A homemade marking or striking knive to transfer tails to pins. Chester Toolworks makes excellent ones, if you don't want to make your own.

A bandsaw, to hog out waste between pins and between tails. I've chopped them out, but find sawing is quicker. Lots of people use a coping saw for this.

A sturdy, massive, flat bench surface for chopping and for paring to your lines, with a flat block of scrap wood to put between the stock and the bench top. (Work on your bench, not in it.)

A Lee Valley LA adjustable mouth block plane for trimming and fitting after glue-up.

Plastic Wood.

Re: Dovetails

Ed Mulligan, Cape Cod

>Adding to the list:

- Plenty of light. Indirect sunlight is best IMO.

- Instruction. A class or one-on-one with a knowledgeable teacher would be easiest. Videos are good. Books are OK.

Ed

Re: Dovetails

Glenn

>I would recommend Hand-Cut Dovetails by

Rob Cosman. It is available from the Lie-Nielsen web site. Rob lists all tools and gives a through presentation on cutting dovetails, tails first. Franks Klausz has a good video also that describes how to cut dovetails, pins first, and he also goes through all the tools needed. You will also need about 200 br-ft of practice wood to get you started:)

Holding a board vertically

Frank D. in Montreal

>I don'y have any vices on my bench, but it's quite easy to hold a board vertically with a hefty piece of wood and some clamps. I use a 3" by 4" piece of oak, about 3' long. I clamp it to the edge of my bench, then I just clamps a board to that. This slightly raises the working height but it's not too bad. Here's a pic:

Re: Dovetails *LINK*

Kevin French, Antrim NH

>Ian Kirby's book "the Complete DOVETAIL"

This site will help you out also


http://www.amgron.clara.net/+jeff+gorman&hl=en

Re: Holding a board vertically

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>I do something similar, but easier, using the Record to hold one side. For the other edge of the board, I lay a long pipe clamp (or bar clamp) all the way across the top of the bench from front to back. If you have a tool tray, watch that you don't warp the back board by overtightening the clamp.

Some alternatives: If you have a Nicholson bench, you can use a holdfast in the front face. If you have a board jack, you can clamp the other side of the board to that, with a squeegee clamp, but you may need a spacer block. The board jack doesn't work very well for this if it hangs on French cleats, because it would tend to lift up and out on every pull stroke.

It's being done... *LINK*

Steve Kubien

>I hope this doesn't break etiquette or rules but Roger Nixon has started a page devoted to benches on his site. There is a forum to direct questions, comments, pics etc etc.

Regards,

Steve Kubien


Traditional Tools Workbench Project

Re: Dovetails

Luke Herzberg

>I'm still working my way up to novice on the dovetail skill-o-meter, so this information may not be worth the pixels it is printed on (in?).

And yet I proceed!

My tools are saw, pair of chisels, square, marking knife, drill and a squared up chunk of hardwood. Technique is no different then the others you will read, other then I auger out the waste and then pare rather than chop. (Note: my dovetails to date have been of the rather corpulent variety; wide enough for a 1/2" chisel at the base of the tails.)

The one thing that turned dovetails from scary to manageable is using the above mentioned squared up chunk of wood as a reference for your chisel to pare the bottoms flat, square to the surface and aligned with one another. Clamp it in place (oops, there's another tool I use) on your scribed line and take your last paring cut with the back of the chisel sliding down it. I don't see this technique mentioned often, and perhaps it is only a crutch for beginners, but it was critical for me.

Good luck!

Re: Holding a board vertically

John H. in Washington, DC

>Hi William.

Please excuse my ignorance, but can you point me to an example of a Nicholson bench or at least explain the characterizing feature that allows it to accommodate such a holdfast. I'm assuming this feature is a thick (at least 2 inches) front apron.

The reason I'm asking is that I just finished a workbench and am thinking of drilling holdfast holes in the front. However, I am wondering whether this is a good idea.

TIA.

Bandsaw?

Christopher Fitch @ Memphis

>I'm curious William..

Can you give some more details on how you use a bandsaw for this?

What kind of setup? Thin blade?

Do you make multiple kerfs or make a tight cut?

I have been using a coping saw but since I use a rip-tooth Dozuki, it's been hard to use the coping saw since the dozuki kerf is so thin.

I am going to try a fret saw with a coarse blade to see how that works.

Re: Bandsaw?

Ted Shuck, Centennial, CO

>I'm not William, and I don't own a bandsaw, but I use a coping saw to remove most of the waste on my dovetails.

I don't try to get the coping saw blade in the same kerf that my dovetail saw cut. I just cut a new kerf down the middle of the waste and curve the end of the cut into one corner. Then I make a horizontal cut from that corner to the other corner. It only takes a few seconds to make this additional vertical cut and saves the time required to turn the coping saw blade in the tight kerf of the dovetail saw cut.

I'm pretty sure this has been mentioned here before by others, Bugbear?

Ted

Plastic wood?

Ernie Miller Topeka

>That is funny. Bill you have made my day.

Lots of good info here...

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA

>It takes practice. Get some scrap wood that easy to work with. Poplar is a good inexpensive wood to use.

Just have at it, practice.

I can recommend the Jim Kingshot video on the subject.

Plastic wood...we're trying NOT to go there...

I didn't really cut tails decently until...

Christopher Fitch @ Memphis

>I got Kirby's book and followed his steps.

His method for marking pins is quite simple and effective...

I improved a great deal after getting his book...

You forgot...

Christopher Fitch @ Memphis

>the file for fixing mistakes (Krenov trick)

;)

Re: Bandsaw?

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>Basically, I do the same thing with the band saw.

For the narrow spaces between tails, I cut straight down the middle between the narrow kerfs cut with the DT saw, and then make a couple more cuts to either side of the center, to chew away most of the wood. That way, there is much less material to be compressed and to remove with the chisel.

For the wider spaces between pins, first, I cut two straight kerfs, near the kerfs I cut with the DT saw, and then I start close to one of these saw kerfs with an angled, curved cut towards the other corner, since the blade in the BS is usually 1/2" and it doesn't turn very tightly. Then, I flip the board over, and start from the other side, to get the bottom close to the line all the way across.

If I'm in a hurry, and not worried about the looks of the joint, I cut as close to the base line as I can with the BS, and then smooth the bottom with a file.

Re: I didn't really cut tails decently until...

Kevin French, Antrim NH

>His practice board is what helpped me the most. Whenever I start cutting DTs I make up a practice board just to get into the swing.

Re: Dovetails

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Using a dozuki, lay the carcass side flat on the bench and cut in a horizontal direction (the saw's movement is vertical.

Pam

Re: Dovetails *LINK*

Alan Bierbaum

>Did you miss my post from last week ?


Work bench in use

Re: Dovetails

glh

>