Adam's reading list

Re: Adam's reading list

Mike G.

>Good list Adam. I would like to find a copy of Moxon's myself.:)

I just read a book by Eric Sloan, " Diary of an American Boy", supposedly excerpts from a diary from 1805. I'm sure Mr. Sloan probably used some "poetic license" in filling in the holes, but it was interesting to see through the drawings how they solved problems moving big stones or timbers around, ect. Very interesting read.

Thanks, Mike G.

Thank you

Scott in MN

>This should keep this newbie busy for awhile.

Re: Adam's reading list

Sam Simpson

>Hi Y'all,

Thanks Adam, just what I needed, more reading :) Not!

No, I mean that, thanks! Like you, I am keen to see that good and correct information about the trades is disseminated to whom ever will put it to use.

To explain a little bit about the lack of printed matter on the trades for the early periods, it is best to gain an understanding of the way in which the "Masters" acquired their work and plied there trade.

They where constantly at odds with lesser skilled workers who would be content to under bid a job. These semiskilled folks where referred to as "Chancers" As in, chancing their luck on a job.

The best way that the higher skilled tradesmen could protect themselves, was to organize into Guilds. The Mason's where just one. As an organized group they were able to disseminate information among themselves and to those they trusted. Things like, who was producing the best bricks, how to form an arch of the latest fashion, what methods work and didn't work when drying the latest crops of new world lumber, were all closely guarded secrets. So secretive where the mason's that they where sometimes though of as cult like. but in fact all they where doing was protecting their sources.

It should come as no surprise that non of this information was written anywhere than in the minutes of the guild or log of mason's. And this included technique as well as materials.

Their problem was a hard fight throughout the growth of Europe 1300-1700, when work was so plentiful that the chancers could find work at the drop of a hat. Later, as the industrial revolution got into full swing and contracts became more technically inclined, the guilds became more relaxed, and organized learning centers for the crafts and trades. Such an education was certified, and an indentured apprenticeship assured the masters of their investment in the expensive education.

The development of the trade schools required text books. Many of the early ones where little more than transcripts from the guild records and masonry logs. But as time progressed, information became available in printed form.

On the subject of which reading to trust? I would trust the textbooks of the late 1800s before I would trust the writings of the chancers. I find that good information from "the dark ages" is best found by following the architectural trail. Especially works of an ecclesiastical nature.

Regards Sam Simpson.

I recomend - Anything by "The technical Press" Ludgate Hill, Surrey.

"The Practical carpenter and joiner" Odams Press London.

"Building sciences" by A. Geeson English Universities Press London.

"Cassell's Technical educator" Cassell and Co, Ltd.

"The Modern Carpenter and Joiner and Cabinet maker" Gresham Publishing London.

Re: Adam's reading list

Joel

>Here are two 18th century English Language references that I think are very interesting:

The Builder's Dictionary 1734

(reprinted association for PReservation TEchnology 1981)

THe Cabinet Maker's book of prices. 1793

(reprinted furniture Society 1982)

The single most interesting read on early cabinetmaking (admittiely early 19th century) is

the cabinetmaking section of "London Labor and the London Poor" by HEnry Mayhew. Vol 3 has the stuff on cabinetmaking. It is readily avialable from Dover. Sadly it is a editing and recasting of the original material by Mayhew which was never reprinted until recently.

the complete woodworking interviews are in "THe Morning Chronicle Survey of Labour and the Poor: THe metropolitan Districts." Volume 5 and a bit of voulume 6. CAliban Books 1982. It took me ages to track it down.

I personally don't buy much of the "secret techniques" theory. The reason stuff wasn't written down is that people learned by practice and repetition. No need to read a book on the subject if you have been watching your boss do it for years.

The things that were written down make sense to write down: Price guides for the guilds and societies and design and pattern books.

wholesale price books are still kept confidential. Pattern books are still being published only we call them catalogs.

Re: Adam's reading list

John Hoffman

>Adam, thanks. Chris S showed me the Cherubini method of using a chisel that was discussed on the chat. My shoulder did not hurt however I got a splinter. Just need some practice and some reading material.

Thanks

JH formerly from your neck of the woods

Re: Adam's reading list

Mike G.

>Well...if'n ya wanna read buy a reprint of Moxon's, bring yer wallet. Starting at $128.00 and up. :(

Mike G.

Re: Adam's reading list

David Hammond, in Powder Springs GA

>Thanks Adam, I really apreciate you compiling this list. Sometimes the hardest part is just finding the right information in the endless sea of books, articles, etc, etc, that is available to us.

As an aside - I just talked to Randall Brothers in Atlanta, a very old lumber/millworks supply house, and found dimensioned No. 1 Southern Yellow Pine, that I have permission to pick through, for little more than I can buy No. 2 crap from the Borg - to Randall I go! And I think I've got my drawing tweaked with the last few neccesary measurements.

Thanks for all your help thus far, it is much appreciated.

David Hammond

My Dad & Me, Inc.

Not true Mike

Dave Anderson Chester, NH

>To save everyone a bit of trouble, Moxon is readily available as a reprint from Dover Press who also has reprints of Thomas Chippendale's Director and Heppelwhite's design book. I bought my copies of each of these from the bookstore at Colonial Williamsburg and each is under $30 new. Just do a web search and I'm sure you can get most of these books any number of places.

Thanks

glh

>

Re: Adam's reading list

Don Thompson - Cutler Ridge, Florida

>A book which I am sure that you would be interested in is Eighteenth=Century Woodworking Tools, Papers presented at a Tool Symposium, May 19-22, 1994. It is Colonial Williamsburg Historic Trades Volume III.

(Bob the UPS man just brought it 15 minutes ago.)

Great book!

Joel

>

LINK  *LINK*

Don Thompson - Cutler Ridge, Florida

>


Colonial Wmsburg Bookshop

Third World Woodworking...

Greg B�tit, Vergennes, VT

>I believe there is a lot that can be learned of the secreted techniques of 18th Century woodworkers by watching their contemporary third world counterparts.

When visiting my daughter in Kenya last Fall, she brought me to the local furniture maker where she was having a linen cabinet made. I was amazed by the pieces he was making with the few tools he had.

He had no power tools, and was eking out a living making furniture for people who themselves had scarce resources. For the most part his clients were not people who appreciated (and would pay a premium for) hand made items, but were ordinary Kenyans who did not have access to furniture stores filled with servicable furniture at prices that they could afford. Never the less, this furniture maker was making frame-and-panel cabinets that I would place in my home with pride.

I think there is nothing like necessity to foster the efficiency that our 18th Century forbears achieved. Colonial Williamsburg, Stawberry Banke, etc. are not focused on furniture production in the same market conditions of the era they want to depict. As much as we would like to understand and duplicate 18th century techniques, this is difficult without living in those times.

Next time I go back to Kenya I would love to spend a couple days just watching a furniture maker work. ...Assuming that a mzungu would be allowed to watch, and that it could be done without being too obtrusive. The Kenyans are friendly and generally speak fluent English, so I believe that this would be a great learning experience.

Greg

Re: Adam's reading list

Jeff Schmidt (KY)

>That is an excellent list, Adam.

I would add a few titles previously printed by Colonial Williamsburg. :-)

[1] The Cabinetmaker in Eighteenth Century Williamsburg: Giving Attention to the City's chief Craftsmen in the Furniture Way; and To their Tools & Methods of Working As Interpreted by Johannes Heuvel, Master Cabinetmaker of Colonial Williamsburg 1966. 40 pp. There is much here that is covered and superceded by Mr. Gaynor's work and others.

[2] Colonial Williamsburg Historic Trades Volume 1, 1988, 77pp. This contains an article on Chairmaking by Mack Headley and an appraisal of the estate of Edmund Dickenson, who served an apprenticeship with Anthony Hay. The appraisal lists an inventory of his tools. (I can't recall if this is included in Gaynor's works.)

The above are not essential but may be of interest to the enthusiast.

Does anyone have?

[1]The Colonial Craftsman by Carl Bridenbaugh, 1950

[2]Furiniture Making in Seventeenth and Eighteenth Century England by Robert Symonds, 1955

Re: Adam's reading list

Adam Cherubini, NJ

>That book is okay. Some of the articles seem duplicated in the "Fascinating World.." or "Tools: Working wood...".

There are at least two previous books in Williamsburg's Arts and Mysteries series. While interesting, these didn't make my "required" reading list.

Additionally a thin pamphlet from Wmsburg entitled something like "The Arts and Mysteries of the Cabinetmaker" is worth while. I think its out of print, but I saw copies at the Prentis store. Its not going to change the way you work wood.

And if its okay, I'd like add:

I have two FWW best of books that I like, and I'd like to tell you why. One is "Period Furniture making" or "Reproduction furniture making", and the other is "Hand tools".

Pretty sure the one on furniture opens with a discussion of what should be reproduced. Defining a "reproduction" is a worth while endeavor IMHO. As I was being raked over the coals in a previous thread, someone mentioned "perfection" which begs the question "who's perfection". "Perfection" is pretty subjective. I think its worth considering how our modern frame of reference influences our work, perceptions of quality, etc.

The Hand tool book includes at least some dubious techniques which humble me. It makes me think less about my own pursuit of hand tool "mastery" and more about passing on something useful (both in terms of furniture and woodworking technology) to someone who will carry the craft further. You can clearly see how far we've come in 10 years or so.

That said, I'm not sure I would buy these books to learn those lessons.

Adam

P.S. Duncan Phyfe Toolchest

Jeff Schmidt (KY)

>Tangentially, I think that a book focusing on the tools and toolchest of Duncan Phyfe is long overdue. If I remember correctly, Carlyle Lynch did some measured drawings on the chest, but I am not aware of any works that are very descriptive of the tools. Early 19th century but still of great interest.

Eric Sloane

Jay Samuels

>All Sloane is worth reading. I just finished "Seasons of America Past". Sloane describes activities, things and events that were linked to the changing of the weather when society was agrarian, that are now "lost". Mind you, this is from 1958.

What of the journeyman??

Jonathan Peck - N.Y.

>Joel wrote:

"I personally don't buy much of the "secret techniques" theory. The reason stuff wasn't written down is that people learned by practice and repetition. No need to read a book on the subject if you have been watching your boss do it for years."

What of the men inbetween the master and the apprentice who had finished their apprenticeships and were not endentured but paid a daily wage. These "journeymen" knew the "tricks of the trade" but for some reason were not masters of their own shop.

I sure wish.....

Jeff Schmidt (KY)

>......that someone would publish Stiefel's John Head article in book form.

Re: I sure wish.....

William Claspy in Cleveland

>......that someone would publish Stiefel's John Head article in book form.

I actually printed the whole thing out, color laser printer (for the color pages.) I don't often do that with web articles, but did for this one.

I might add to the reading list, the 1999 volume of "American Furniture" which includes, among other articles, a long piece by Mack Headly concerning the time estimates of furniture built by the Newport shops of the 18th century. I just got this and it is some interesting reading.

Cheers from snowy Cleveland,

Bill

Re: What of the journeyman??

Dave Anderson Chester, NH

>I think there were several varieties of journeymen Jonathan. Often there were a number of years required before one could become listed as a Master and all shops only had one Master. Some journeymen never added sufficient skill or had sufficient ambition to become masters of their own shop, just as today many skilled craftspeople prefer to work for someone else rather than becoming an entrepreneur on their own. Then there are always what were in the Marine Corps were refered to as the Ten Percenters, the drunks, lazy, and incompetent. Lest you laugh, remember that alcohol was a huge problem in the 16-1800s when wateer was unsafe to drink.

The Studley Chest Too!

Michael Schlesinger

>

Re: Not true Mike

Greg Betit, Crown Point NY

>Hi,

I just came up dry at Dover Publications for Moxon and Heppelwhite, but they had the Thomas Chippendale book.

Astragal Press had a 1994 reprint of Moxon's "MECHANICK EXERCISES OR The Doctrine of Handy-Works", seems it is no longer in print.

Praeger had a 1970 reprint, there's one on Ebay from the UK, 8 days to go...

Amazon has an annotated reprint of Moxon's 1683 book on printing-

Greg

Moxon Used *LINK*

Jeff Schmidt (KY)

>Listed below is a link to what I came up with at bookfinder. That fine hardbound copy at $60 is not a bad price.


Moxon Used