Est. 1998 — 27 years of woodworking knowledge
Which Shoulder Plane?
preed
>Should I buy? I am looking at the 3 from Lee Valley. Each looks good and has it's own apparent benefits. Money's not the big issue, I just want one to do it all. The small chisel plane has the neat feature of the removable bullnose. Is it helpful?
Re: Which Shoulder Plane?
John Snyder
>I'd like to recommend the Stanley 93 (as I duck for cover). I've about worn mine out - never ever let me down. Great tool for not alot of $$...
JS
Re: Which Shoulder Plane?
William Duffield, on the Cohansey
>If money is no object, get all three. For me, money is an important issue. I carry the bullnose and a large shoulder plane mostly equivalent to the Lee Valley in my toolbox every day. I find both of them indispensible for building and restoring traditional furniture. Before I got the bullnose, I thought all I needed was a scraper blade and a paring chisel and a crankback firmer chisel. I was wrong. The bullnose is a very useful tool, and it saves time and headaches.
You really need to try out the large and medium shoulder plane before making a decision between them, however. Lots and lots of people find that a plane the size of the 073, even with the excellent Veritas ergonomic enhancements, too large, heavy and cumbersome. OTOH, I think it's just right for me. PapaBear vs. Goldilox syndrome, maybe?
Since money is sometimes important to me, I'm not going to buy either the LV medium or large shoulder plane, because my well-used vintage Lie-Nielsen probably wouldn't sell for what I would need to buy the LV, and anyway I couldn't afford to be without it in the interim. If I had it to do over again today, I'd buy the LV large shoulder plane instead of the L-N 073 or the LV medium shoulder plane.
Wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then
Re: Which Shoulder Plane?
Lyn J. Mangiameli
>Yes, I think it is a Mama bear/Papa bear situation. The LN large shoulder is simply to heavy, unwieldly and ultimately too fatiguing in my hands--much the same goes for the Large LV version. The Clifton 410 and 420 and the LV Medium shoulder plane are just right for me. I really do think it has more to do with hand size than muscle strength, something I've never been accused of falling short of. I also think it has to do a bit with the size work one is doing and whether one wishes to have the Shoulder plane do double duty as a cheek plane (I most decidedly don't). So as usual, Williams' advice is very good, and you should put both into use and then decide which is most comfortable and efficient.
#92 or #93 Every Time
Bob Smalser, Seabeck, WA
>The Stanley designs are so much more compact, are more easily used on their sides and in the pull mode, that I don't understand what all the fuss is about the Preston copies or the blocky ones with all those bells and whistles hanging off of them.
I have a fancy-schmantzy infill I use occasionally, and have tried the L/V Medium, but always reach for the #93 Sweetheart when the going is tough and tight.
Re: Which Shoulder Plane?
earl-the-pearle
>The Stanley is a lot easier to keep square to your work. If you want a working plane they are hard to beat.
Goldilox?! Has she given up on gruel?
Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX
>
Re: Hand size
Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX
>I don't know that hand size is all that important. I'm 5'6" with only largish hands (can reach an octave with no great effort, size 7 gloves if that means anything much) for a woman and have no problems using the LN 073. Like William, I'd probably buy the LV large instead if buying today; but not because the LN is particularly unwieldy. It's heavy enough for me to notice it's there.
Pam
I'm doubtful too
Alice Frampton, UK
>I don't have any trouble with either the Record #073 or LV large, despite one tool pusher's claims that I have tiny, Elf-like rather than Alf-like hands... (although I can do the octave thing too - I just checked :~) Perhaps technique has more to do with it? Not "my technique's better than yours" - heaven forbid such a claim - but just the way one person's method varies from another's.
However, unlike William and Pam, I think I'd go with the medium first. Probably more to do with the scale of stuff I make than anything else, as Lyn has already mentioned. Helpful, no? ;~)
Cheers, Alf
Re: Which Shoulder Plane?
Dan Clermont in Burnaby
>I realy... really ....REALLY like my LN 60 /2R. It isn't a traditional shoulder plane but the 1 1/2" wide blade and the lighter weight make it a winner in my toolbox.
I realize you can buy a 1 1/2" wide shoulder plane but those suckers are HEAVY and cumbersome to use.
Dan Clermont in Burnaby
Re: Which Shoulder Plane?
Joel
>I would not trade my 1 1/2" or 1 1/4" shoulder planes for anything. The balance is perfect, they have hand holds where they are supposed to be and the weight and size gives great control.
it's a great thing to use them on their side and keep the hands are far enough away from the mouth so that you can see what you are doing - or grasping them and pulling them forward so again the cutting edge is right under your nose.
Interesting...
Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA
>I have a beater 94 I got at a yard sale. Nice and square, even with the hairline cracks in the housings. Somebody billeted (sp) the blade so it like new. Its mass and low profile are making it one of my favorites. I reach for the 92 and 93 more than my Record 073.
Classic Rock
Jay Samuels
>I guess nobody picked up the Bob Seeger lyrics.
Question for Alice and Pam
Mike Rubes, Apex, NC
>Hi Alice and Pam,
I'm curious about the grip you both use on the LN073. I've got this plane and really like it, but I just cannot seem to get a very good grip on it. When I am using it over a long distance (say, 2+ feet for a rabbet side), I can let it rest against the cheek of the rabbet and really love the extra weight as it really gets going and does a great job, but for the shoulders on tenons, I find it a little unwieldy.
Just last week I (finally) got my LN 140 and find that that plane is quite nice and managable to use in tighter spaces than the 073. In fact, I really find that they work well together and I appreciate my 073 more now that I can be a bit more selective about where to use it. Still, I'd love to hear more (or see a pic in action) of your grips on the 073.
Thanks,
Mike
Plane shavings instead of lathe shavings in Apex, NC
93 Sweetheart
Bob Smalser, Seabeck, WA
>I'd hold out for one with the disk in the front.
A hundred bucks for one...the equivalent price of buying a new English Stanley (not recommended) is OK with me.
I just bought a broken #94 Sweetheart for 150 bucks because I want a large shoulder plane to cut crossgrain where my large beech skewed rabbet is a bit messy and will do what I have to to get exactly what I want.
The bonus use of the 93....accurate corner cleanup matching the sides of a centerboard trunk:
Your 94...
Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA
>I might have the missing parts for it. Ping me if your interested.
Thanks...
Bob Smalser, Seabeck, WA
>Parts are there....it needs a braze job followed by chasing some threads.
Re: Question for Alice and Pam
Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX
>To a certain extent we may be benefitting from natural female dexterity, which statistically is far better than the average male's dexterity (just think how stupid medical schools were to discriminate against females, who are naturally inclined to be great surgeons). Sexual dimorphism finally gives us an advantage! :) I didn't really think about this until Alf chimed in, which made me remember all the contortions men here and on BP described.
That said, there's hope for you. I neaten up the cheeks before the shoulders, so there's no problem doing them like you do rebates, rest the 073 on its side. For smaller tenons, the 073 spans them so there are few problems holding it normally, right hand on the big back bulge, left hand/thumb on the front guiding. For larger pieces, I might have to transition from holding to guiding for each hand as the 073 passes into the tenon.
For doing the cheeks, it's all regular holding, with the heel of left thumb on the front hold, some finger lifting as the 073 nears the shoulder.
I'll try to remember to take some photos whenever I get back to finer woodworking. I agree, the 140 and 073 together make a powerful tenon processing combo.
Pam
Sounds like mine ;-)
Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA
>
Re: 93 Sweetheart
Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)
>While more recent examples (say of the past 20 years or so) of English-made #9Xs come in for flack (none of which I have used so I am only going on hearsay), the #93 I purchased from Toolbazaar (UK) several years ago is probably about 50 years old and perfectly coplanar. It was a great purchase and as good as my USA-made #92. These are two great tools and I have not been tempted to buy anything else. Well, I did receive a HNT Gordon 3/4" shoulder plane for a birthday present last year, and this plane is both stunning in looks and in performance. Well worth considering as it is probably the cheapest of the shoulder planes and will hold its own with the most expensive.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Re: Which Shoulder Plane?
William Duffield, on the Cohansey
>No need to duck for cover, John. In our shop, I'm trying all the time to make converts from the #93 to my 073, but mostly it is an exercise in futility. Me and the #93 don't seem to get along, but it seems to suit a lot of woodworkers. Since it is not ductile iron, it is more fragile than the LV and L-N products, as you might have guessed from Bob and Scott's discussion. We also have spare parts lying around, just in case the next one lands on the other end.
Lets put it another way. I really hate the #93. I can't find a comfortable grip on it, anywhere, pushed, pulled, on its belly or on its side, or thrown. It doesn't weigh enough when the going gets tough. Note that in the examples he shows, Bob is using it for conifers, e.g., spruce, but not for rock maple, or even cherry, walnut, tuliptree or even mahogany. The nickel plating is tacky, and you can't tune the ergonomics without messing it up. I'd rather use a Marmota monax incisor, held between my toes or in my teeth.
Of course you could do worse. You could get a [expletive deleted], but we won't go there.
I think that it is Toby Keith.
Don Thompson - Cutler Ridge, Florida
>
Bob Seger, Against the Wind..........
Andy Halterman: Work is vastly overrated
>as a former Detroit area resident, Mr. Seger was required learning. :-)
Andy Halterman
Shop time making thresholds this morning in Hendersonville, NC�
Re: Which Shoulder Plane?
Don Thompson - Cutler Ridge, Florida
>Make? Model? Vintage? Inquiring minds want to know!
(you always have such interesting planes)
