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Starting a new, um, discussion

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Starting a new, um, discussion

#1

Starting a new, um, discussion

Bill Houghton, Sebastopol, CA

>In his book, "The Woodworker's Bible" (1976, not sure of original publishers, I've got a 1985 edition published by Crown Publishers), Percy Blandford makes the assertion that a line struck at 90 degrees from the hand hold part of a (Western) saw handle should intersect the center of the length of the sawblade. He includes an illustration that demonstrates this with both a handsaw and a backsaw - I haven't included this illustration because I think to do so would violate copyright (but will do so if one of the forum moderators tells me it's OK).

I note that the high-end backsaws about which everyone who's bought one raves - Adria and Independence (now L-N) - seems to violate this rule. From the pictures, a similar line struck from their handles would appear to intersect the heel of the sawblade. My impression - formed without climbing up on my bench to get the good saws down from where I am storing them against the glorious day that I stop doing carpentry and start torturing pieces of hardwood - is that my Disston (and Sons in some cases) and Atkins saws follow this rule.

Is Percy Blandford wrong or excessively fussy (something that he seems to be from time to time)? Is he describing a practice that is now out of fashion? Or is there some difference in the way the modern high-end saws are used that supports a radically different handle angle?

Re: Starting a new, um, discussion

#2

Re: Starting a new, um, discussion

Ed Snow

>Perhaps it is because we start the saw cut at the heel of the blade. I have found the start of the cut most critical as I am rarely able to make a correction with the saw. The saw manufacturers may have realized this too and built saws to meet this need.

Re: Starting a new, um, discussion

#3

Re: Starting a new, um, discussion

Moses Yoder in White Pigeon, MI

>A dovetail saw would be used differently from a crosscut or rip. I could see a rip saw especially needing to have the handle at 90� to the blade, as the force required would be most efficiently applied with your arm in line with the blade. A backsaw used for cutting joints would normally have the work surface clamped at a level well below my elbow, so my arm would be coming down at an angle to the blade, and my hand would be close to a 90� angle to my arm but not quite. The most comfortable would be to have the blade parallel to the floor, the work clamped at about 38" from the floor, and the handle perpendicular to my arm.

Re: Starting a new, um, discussion

#4

Handaw "hang"

Bob Hackett

>It must be right as Tom Law offers up the same opinion on page 5 of the latest issue of Woodworking magazine.

It`s in the Shortcuts section.

MB

Re: Starting a new, um, discussion

#5

Re: what do you get�

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>if you cross an elephant with a rhinoceros? That's a rhetorical question, and I'll offer some observations to think about, but not necessarily any answers.

The Adria and Independence DT saws were modeled on much older saws than the Disstons most of us use, and therefore retain clues to the ancient mystery. Perhaps, Chris Schwarz and Adam can shed some light on the subject. Methinks perhaps Pete and Eddie copied the art without fully comprehending the mystery.

Chris talks about a technique called "cut and run" for production of lots of drawers fast, that also relies on sawing with the tip of the blade held very high, but I cannot explain it. Maybe that mystery should also be included in a future curmudgeon article?

The way I use a dovetail saw, I find the angle of handle vs. blade of the old Disstons a lot more comfortable, and less intent on exacerbating CTS and RSI, than the top of the line backsaws. But I have a higher bench than the old masters may have used, and I like to both start and end the cut with the teeth horizontal, because it is easier to start and neater at the finish. This does make it a bit uncomfortable for cutting half blind pins, because I have to hold the tip of the blade very high or I cut the kerf well beyond the end of the socket. Now, a lot of the old pieces were done that way, but I don't like the visible saw kerfs extending into the back of the drawer front.

Regarding "hang" and directing the force towards the center of the cut. IIRC, Chris also pointed out that unlike many other sawing tasks, dovetailing doesn't need a lot of force. It's more about finesse than working up a sweat efficiently. About the time you've got the cut started, you're done, so maybe the most powerful cutting angle is not so important.

"Sir" Will, Confused at a higher level and about more important things

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