O/t Cool S-10

Me, glad you're cool now.

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>

Re: O/t Cool S-10

GolfSteve in Calgary

>Did you do a post-mortem on the old water pump? What was the problem?

Re: O/t Cool S-10

Jack Guzman from Maine

>Thanks Todd but I still think mine is electrical.Only reads hot sometimes. All week it has read perfect. Like it's supposed to.Sometimes for no apparent reason,the guage spikes and stays high for a long time then suddenly goes back down all by itself.I thought it was the thermostat at first but ruled that out a long time ago.

Re: O/t Cool S-10

Joe Rogers, Northern Virginia

>Todd...I'm in the car business and I don't think you should pay for any of the repairs that did not fix your car. These "experiments" were the shot gun type of diagnosis. Any legitimate diagnosis should be paid for but unproductive parts and services were hunches not true diagnosis. At best only pay cost for the parts and split the labor. If you don't want to discuss this on the forum ping me off line.JR

Re: paying for shotgun

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Great idea, Joe, couldn't agree more; but try getting your car back without paying for all of it.

Pam

Re: paying for shotgun

Joe Rogers, Northern Virginia

>If you have an upfront complaint verified on the repair order and the fix didn't fix it,how can the shop justify the charges. Be firm...get nasty if necessary but don't let repair shops that hire low/no experience hacks rip you off. I have worked in this industry for over 30 years and I am tired of the negative image the profession gets because of shoddy work. JR

Re: paying for shotgun

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>It used to be so much easier when my Dad was the dealer. :)

I've found this great mechanic who's still not magic, so I give him a lot of slack on subtle problems. For example, the BMW, which is really getting long in the tooth but still runs so well, has a problem with recharging/starting. If I rev the engine when idling at a stop light and make sure to operate it above 2500 rpm, all is fine; but if I don't do that, after about 20 starts, it won't start, have to recharge the battery or apply jumpers. But the battery isn't all that low, just low enough that it won't start on its own. We've tried various fixes, nothing works. I keep paying the mechanic.

Same thing happens in so many situations. Say the doctor who misdiagnoses, the software consultant who tries to fix your system and ends up causing another problem, the woodworker who tries to repair a finish and ends up wrecking it, and so on. Leaving aside thieves, incompetents, and quacks, all these people work in good faith on tough problems and can generally not afford to do what they do for free.

Pam

Re: paying for shotgun

Todd O. Cronkhite Maine Native in FL. Exile :~(

>Hey Joe,

I really don't expect any problems with this fellow. I guess for one thing he is also from Maine. He runs a complete independant shop and is not in any shape form or fashion part of a chain, and that is why I use him. Just your basic small hometown shop here in te big city.

He was the one to recommend that I change the water pump myself to save some $$$$.

I have my truck, and as far as I know I owe him some $$$ for the cost of the radiator flush if nothing else. He knows full well that I'll return on Monday as agreed to work out the billing. Call it Yankee to Yankee trust if you will. We have known each other for several years now, and he knows my ethics. I'm sure that he'll be reasonable about the labor cost involved in chasing hunches.

One the other hand, I'llbe fair to him, as if nothing else I have damn near a full replacement of 10 year old parts that where bound to fail sooner or later anyway. The way I see it, this was just one of those cases where the solution defied reasonable logic, so with that taken into account............................

I have no problems discussing this "in public" as somebody else might benefit from the information that is put out. Thanks immensely for your concern Joe, it means alot, but at this point I have no worries. will report back on Monday ot tuesdat how it went.

Todd O.

Re: paying for shotgun

Joe Rogers, Northern Virginia

>Good point Pam. No one should work for free. I just think a good tech should go the extra step in diagnosis before he charges for repairs.

Todd I admire your sense of responsibility. Your guy also knew that you had put the waterpump on recently. It would have been a poor choice to ask for that job. I hope you come to an agreeable conclusion. JR( and I'm glad your truck's fixed)

Re: paying for shotgun

Moses Yoder in White Pigeon, MI

>How do you know whether the person you are dealing with is a thief, incompetent, or quack? I guess by getting a second and third opinion. There are several different types of garages out there. One has hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of diagnosis equipment and you pay for that. The other does not have the equipment, and you pay for that. I think it pretty much balances out. I ususally take my car to my brother-in-law, which has worked out well as he is certified but has very little equipment, and if he can't fix it we generally have to take it to the dealer.

Re: paying for shotgun

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>First couple of visits I ask them to explain things. If they can't or won't or generally appear evasive, that's a good enough sign that they're one of the three.

You're lucky to have such a bil.

Pam

Re: paying for shotgun

Dale Stansbery

>Todd,

You've got the right attitude. If all the parts were original, they needed replaced anyway as preventative maintenance. You're lucky you didn't have a blown radiator hose out somewhere in no man's land and need an expensive tow. The question is why will original parts last 10 years or sometimes longer and replacements (made to OEM Specs)invariably seem to have half that life or less.

Re: paying for shotgun

Joe Rogers, Northern Virginia

>Guaranteed replacment market?JR

Re: paying for shotgun

Dan Donaldson

>"Made to OEM specs" usually means that it will fit. Does not mean that it is made of the same materials or to the same reliability standards. That is partly why some OEM parts cost a lot more, but are probably worth it. for other parts, it pays to shop just for price.

Addy protocol: I have worked in automotive design engineering either as a direct employee or a supplier for the last 28 years ;-)

Re: paying for shotgun

GolfSteve in Calgary

>Hi Pam. What's your driving style like? If you do a lot of short low speed trips combined with high elecrical loads (eg. heated seats on, rear window defogger on, etc), then what you're describing can occur.

I'm no expert, but I know that my VW has some type of load shedding alternator. My understanding is that at times of high electrical demand, the alternator lets the battery drain down rather that put an extra load onto the engine. The assumption is that most people drive long enough that the electrical demand will drop, and the alternator can catch up and recharge the battery. However, if you only do short trips, the alternator never has a chance to catch up.

The other thing that might be happening is a parasitic load, such as your trunk light never shutting off when the trunk lid is closed.

Just some thoughts...

Re: paying for shotgun

Joe Rogers, Northern Virginia

>Yes and yes. Both situations are very possible. Chasing parasitic loads is the current bane of my work life.

Pam, ask your tech if he has tested the electrical system for a draw. A difference of 15MA (normal)to 50MA could cause the problems you are living with.JR

Re: load shedding

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Thanks, Steve. A long trip seems to decrease the number of starts I get between charges. Great idea to check for parasitic loads.

Pam

Re: paying for shotgun

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Will do, Joe, it needs to go in next week or the week after, will let you know. Thanks again to both of you.

Pam

Re: paying for shotgun

Todd O. Cronkhite Maine Native in FL. Exile :~(

>Wow, I learned something new. Parasite loads. Never would of crossed my mind about those. Did know about the short trip thing tho.

Last I knew it took 5-7 miles for the alternator to replace the charge you took out of the battery just starting the motor. Now turn on the AC, radio, and goodness know whatever else elctron eater there are in cars these days, drive for 3 miles, the battery is already behind, start 'er up again and drive home and shut off off, now the battery is really hating it.

Hope these suggestions cure your Beemers ails Pam.

Todd O.

Factor in winter temps and...

Joe Rogers, Northern Virginia

>It gets even worse for your battery. Ever notice how it seems more jump starts are needed in the winter? JR

Re: paying for shotgun

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Yeah, I started leaving it running when going to the local stores and could keep an eye on it (I know, it could be stolen lickety split, but Austin is not Boston). Funny, I seldom drive more that 5 miles in one direction, and mostly only a couple of miles, no problems with the Vanagon so far. Cars are definitely finicky, what with all those electromechanical connecting points.

Pam

Re: paying for shotgun

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>In NJ, it's illegal to leave an engine running in a convenience store parking lot while you run in, due to contributions to air polution. At least, it's the DEP that posts the notices, not DYFS.

Re: paying for shotgun

Todd O. Cronkhite Maine Native in FL. Exile :~(

>It is my understanding that if you where to leave your car running, or keys in the switch with the engine off and it was stolen you cannot prosecute for theft either.

Todd O.

Yet something else to make you homesick

Bob Hackett

>I leave the keys in both vehicles every night and can`t remember the last time I locked my door either in the 5 years I`ve lived in this house or any of the ones before it.

Come to think of it,the last time I remember locking the door was when I lived in NY.That seems like a previous life.

I guess Maine may be proof of reincarnation.

Mainely,Bob-The only folks I know who lock things up are the ones "from away" who come up during the summer.They always leave us keys when they go back,I find that rather ironic.