Infill plane

Don't listen to him!

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA

>Now wait just one minute�

I just can�t help it, something�s up here� Let�s walk through Lyn�s post�

�It's an interesting proposal, and a lot of fun to touch and feel all these "world class" planes, but one that I would approach differently.�

Right off the bat Lyn doesn�t want anybody touching these planes. Let continue�

�More personally meaningful to me would be to take that bunch of the "world class planes," have an "expert" plane user adjust them all to obtain the best possible performance, and then plane a multitude of woods with each plane�

Things are getting really fishy to me now�A bunch of �World class planes� going to a plane �expert�? Gee I wonder who the expert is?�Lets finish it off�

�Sending each behind the curtain to be rated by the group as to optimal surface finish.�

All we get are shavings� not very fair to me or anyone. Now the end�

�I wouldn't be surprised if some under $100 dollar planes rated very highly, if allowed to complete blind against such exhaulted company.�

This is just a snow job�He wants you to believe you will be involved with his madness.

You see this is one plane junkie�s way of getting his fix. Don�t buy into this craziness!

Of course this is all in fun.;-)

Re: Infill plane

joel

>What I disagree with is that tHe post war planes work as well as the pre-wars.

Several cavets:

I am comparing several pre-war A5's and A6's in expremely good unmodified condition to several post-wars - also in extremely good condtion.

THese are unmodified basically stock planes.

The pre-wars ALWAYS perform better - but the difference is subtle.

Also you should be aware that there are at least 3 or 4 different interations of the psotwar design.

The important differences are the post war plane are slightly narrower than the average prewar (2 1/8" instead of the more common 2 1/4"). THe blades are by Sorby with a Norris STamp the infill is beech, the planes are not entirely overstuffed excpt for the very early ones and in the later ones the infill is just bolted in.

Individual samples of the planes may vary and of course the overwhelming number of surviving planes have been tuned sometimes for the better sometimes for the worse.

Super idea, Joel!

Wiley Horne--Glendora CA

>A planing meet with people using their own planes, or loaners, would be a great way to broaden the scope and access of testing and demonstration, from the pioneers to handtool users at large. Perhaps it would emerge that sharpening and fettling are the keys to planing, not which plane you own.

The subject of Japanese planes, brought up by Matti, is a very good one. I would not be at all surprised if someone with a 41 to 43 degree bedded Japanese smoother will put the highest and deepest surface gloss on the test woods--difficult woods or not.

I can't make it to New York myself, for personal reasons. But I would be glad to contribute to offset the expenses of putting on an event such as you describe. And would also like to contribute at least two planes to be tested--an S&S smoother or panel, and a C&W cocobolo smoother.

Wiley

Re: Super idea, Joel!

joel

>Wiley,

It wasn't my idea - and while I would love to have New York as a location - ( a great place to spend a few days and the rest of the family won't be bored) something tells me that the location must be centrally located. Which is great because I haven'ty been anywhere in ages!!!

As for fettling I would agree with you, followed by bedding a plane on wood the key to very long acceptable performance between sharpening (a fancy way of saying making the plane fail slowly)

Re: "experts"

Moses Yoder in White Pigeon, MI

>I am not an expert, so having an expert set up a plane for me and have me tell him which is the best plane based on the shavings would not do me much good at all. I occasionally read tool reviews in magazines, and I think they serve a purpose, but I am an individual, with personal preferences getting in the way, much the same as everyone else. Personally, I never want to touch an Anderson or Holtey plane; I'm afraid of what I would do afterwards to get one for myself ;)

I wonder though

Dan Donaldson

>It might be good to use a plane set up by an expert just so that you have a feel for how one works when set up properly. I think it is the same kind of thing with "sharp". Many people, when first starting out, really have no idea what "sharp" really is. Having someone demonstrate how to sharpen something and then using it compared to what you normally use can give a lot of insight, and a goal that you can see. I would love to use a plane set up by someone that really knows what they are doing. This would include the sharpening of the iron, how (or if) the rest of it was fettled, and how it is adjusted for a particular cut.

Just mu $.02 ;-)

Re: Don't listen to him!

Lyn J. Mangiameli

>Understood all in fun (so to speak) and my just deserts for past sins.....

.... but before expectations get too high, I should make clear that the likelihood that I could free up the tme to participate in such an event is quite remote. Hell, I can't get the time even to finish writing up my own investigations. Nonetheless, I find the idea to be spectacular and am sure it would be great fun, as well as highly informative, for both direct and vicarious participants Kudus to Chris for presenting it.

Re: Super idea, Joel!

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Yes, I would agree; although the bedding angle best to use will depend on the wood being planed.

Should be a lot of fun. Not that I classify myself as an expert, but I could probably make it to NY or Ohio, depending on when it will be.

Pam

Re: Infill plane

ken c

>I am aware of the various versions of post war planes - I have owned them all over the years - screw through front bun vs no screw.

Overstuffed vs not overstuffed, twin screw adjuster vs single screw adjuster, pinned vs brazed knob on adjuster.

I currently *own* 8 Norris planes (including a pair of A1 panel planes) and can and do use them anytime I want - rather than just occasionally using someone elses.

My prewars of course, are far more beautiful than the post wars but do not in fact work any better than the post wars.

Obviously the feeling must be subjective.

Re: Some Thoughts

steve knight

>you mean I have no place in there?? now your gonna make me cry (G)

Re: Some Thoughts

Lyn J. Mangiameli

>Actually Steve, I think your 63 degree angle coffin smoother is outstanding--with respect to surface finish, up there with some of the very best super-smoothers and better than some infills. I was just responding to Dean's initial post about wanting an Infill plane.

Re: Hutchinson planes

Art Geiger

>I am a collector and user and have over the years bought Norris, Spiers and also contemporary dovetailed infill planes. The point made about worn Norris planes, over 60 years old et al, is a valid point, but I have been fortunate with the occasional MINTY Norris. My opinion is that a Hutchinson plane will outperform a mint Norris, and does, in fact, outperform all the other contemporary infill planes I have in my collection. I have no connection with Darryl Hutchinson, the maker, but through his planemaking merit have gone on to purchase 5 planes from him, and all are equally as good as the others. I cannot recommend them strongly enough to you. He has a web site at http://www.classicplanes.com. Anyone that approaches him will find he is very knowledgable about planes, and will talk to you for as long as you want without any pressure sell - unlike some contemporary makers I'll not mention here! (diving and ducking out of here).

Stephen Thomas

Derek

>Lynn,

Stephen used to post here a lot. I don't think I've seen a post by him for a LOOOONG time. I hope he is doing well.

Derek

Re: Stephen Thomas

Lyn J. Mangiameli

>Sorry Derek I didn't see this until today.

SMT is doing very well. He has been involved in a number of projects, mostly on historical/public buidlings in Washington DC.

He has made a decision to stay out of most public woodworking forums to focus his efforts elsewhere.

I suspect we will here more about him over the next few months, but I doubt (much as I'd like to see it happen) that we will hear from him here.