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Hey, Rob! Shoulder Planes?????

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Hey, Rob! Shoulder Planes?????

#1

Hey, Rob! Shoulder Planes?????

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>After using your bullnose shoulder plane for a while, I got a really crazy idea. I really like the ease with which it converts from bullnose to chisel plane and back again. I've probably said that here before. But while enjoying the comfortable grip even with the nose removed, I got to thinking about the inherent limitations in the short support in front of the blade, and then I slipped the nose off and on again a couple more times, and looked at the machining between the two pieces.

There are probably lots of reasons this doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but I figured I should at least ask, just in case you guys hadn't thought of it.

Why not one body, one blade, one Norris adjuster, and two interchangeable noses, something like this?


With all those gloatable metalworking tools you guys have to play with, machining two matching noses to fit one body shouldn't be impossible, should it? My fear is that the brass knob and the mating surfaces wouldn't be substantial enough to keep the nose from flexing unacceptably. But, I figure it's got to cost less than a bullnose plane and a medium shoulder plane, and it would be a bit wider, easily filling a perceived gap in your lineup of shoulder planes. That may be a good thing, or it may be a bad thing. It would certainly make the guys making the 3-in-1 at Clifton sit up and take note.

If you build it, I'd be glad to test it for you, and I promise I wouldn't complain that it's ugly :^)

In case anyone has any doubts, the "plane" in the image, or anything similar, does not exist, as far as I know. It is not a Loxahatchee Toolworks prototype. It is not a Lee Valley prototype. It is just a sloppy photomanipulation of a scan of my LV bullnose plane.

Re: Hey, Rob! Shoulder Planes?????

#2

Nice Stealth Gloat...

Christopher Fitch @ Memphis

>My uncle would be irritated with you since he does not have his yet...

Re: Hey, Rob! Shoulder Planes?????

#3

Re: Nice Stealth Gloat...

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Yeah, I'm irritated, too. First William creates demand which in turn causes LV to go out of stock, now I'm stuck in some sort of "In stock and reserved" limbo. What does that mean?

That said, there is a limit to flexibility. A bullnose is supposed to be used in tight situations. If you add that long nose, it becomes something else (not sure what exactly), which probably calls for a different plane.

Pam

Re: Hey, Rob! Shoulder Planes?????

#4

Re: Nice Stealth Gloat...

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>It's easy to create excess demand for something that doesn't exist :^)

Regarding out of stock on real planes, I can only say I'm so sorry. He who hesitates is lost. We have two of the bullnose planes in the shop down on the marshes, unless I forget to bring mine with me, and a couple 93s and a 073; also, 3 LA adjustable mouth block planes, two with wooden knobs and one with the wooden tail.

Yes, it would become a next-generation 3-in-1: Two different adjustable mouth shoulder planes for the price of, well, less than two shoulder planes. The idea is that you would get the long nose in addition to the bullnose, not instead of the bull nose. I suppose it might make sense to offer the plane with either one nose or the other or both, so you could decide to add the second nose later, similar to deciding later to get a second high-angle bevel-up blade for your LA jack or smoother, but that might make the long-term machining tolerances much more difficult.

Re: Hey, Rob! Shoulder Planes?????

#5

Something rotten in Denmark...

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond,CA

>I don't like this...Sounds like the devious LAPG...

Or those Yuppy Bastar...infill...Ahhhhhhhhhhhh

It's all too much...

Re: Hey, Rob! Shoulder Planes?????

#6

Re: 3-in-1

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Well, I suppose it's no hair off my teeth if LV offers an additional attachment. I think I agree with your first message about the forces on this longer front end. Perhaps if instead of the bull nose LV had a protrusion with a bigger screw to which the shoulder front end would attach, much of this could be ameliorated.

Pam

PS I'm really not all that upset about the back order, just wondering why the tool is staying in stock and reserved. Why hasn't it shipped? What is this strange status? Maybe it needs some fit and polish and packing?

Re: Hey, Rob! Shoulder Planes?????

#7

Re: 3-in-1

Rob Lee

>Hi Pam -

Reveiwed your order - you added an "Eats shoots and leaves" comment on it, which made a rep figure you didn't want it shipped right away...

Check your email - I'll explain there!

Cheers -

Rob

Re: Hey, Rob! Shoulder Planes?????

#8

Eats, shoots and leaves. [snort!]

Don Thompson - Cutler Ridge, Florida

>

Re: Hey, Rob! Shoulder Planes?????

#9

Bullnose Plane Review?

Don Thompson - Cutler Ridge, Florida

>Did you ever hone, refine and polish your LVBP review?

Re: Hey, Rob! Shoulder Planes?????

#10

Re: Hey, Rob! Shoulder Planes?????

Rob Lee

>Hi William -

Add a swivel knob - and you've just invented the medium shoulder plane... :)

Seriously - there are some design /tolerance issue with what you propose...

Firstly - the nose and body are ground as matched sets... making interchangeable parts would be *very* expensive...it would be a virtually manual process, with a high reject rate. Producing two planes is less expensive.

Secondly - the the tolerances required for the nose/body interface youve shown are tremendous - given the sole length involved... you have two pieces each with a pair of parallel (at a high tolerance) reference surfaces, where the distance between surfaces is also fixed at a high tolerance (tolerances on the two parts are additive for the assembled whole). Note that the tolerances aren't an issue for the bullnose - as the "nose" is so short.

Record (with the 311) did this the only practical way - by having all three castings mated for simultaneous grinding... and even then, the interface fit of the parts had to be controlled...

Good try though!

Cheers -

Rob

Re: Hey, Rob! Shoulder Planes?????

#11

Re: Hey, Rob! Shoulder Planes?????

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>Those are exactly the issues I was afraid would make it totally impractical, but I don't have the mechanical engineers, machinery and laboratories to do the experiments, so all I could do was conjecture.

Re: Hey, Rob! Shoulder Planes?????

#12

Re: Nice Stealth Gloat...

Mitch from NYC

>"I suppose it might make sense to offer the plane with either one nose or the other or both..."

Perhaps they could offer a no-nose version and call it the Michael Jackson!

Re: Hey, Rob! Shoulder Planes?????

#13

Re: 3-in-1

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>I don't know, Rob, looks like plain English failed us here. Thanks for the email, all is OK, except that now I'll have to join Jack in Michigan at least long enough to collect my bullnose. :)

Pam

Re: Hey, Rob! Shoulder Planes?????

#14

Eats Shoots and Leaves *LINK*

Clay C in Miami

>This is a great, funny book, though British rules are different ...

And, in the interest of not letting Rob post a punch line only, just in case there's one person who hasn't heard it ...

A panda walks into a bar, orders a club sandwich and a beer. Finishes his lunch, pulls a pistol out, and shoots all the bottles behind the bar. Turns and walks out the door. As he reaches the door, the barkeep asks - "Hey, whassup with all that?" Panda says "I'm a panda - look it up." They do, and the (poorly punctuated) dictionary says "Panda: Ailuropoda Melanolveca: A large black-and white mammal of the bamboo forests of Northern China. Can weigh up to 350 pounds. Eats, shoots and leaves."

Clay


Eats Shoots and Leaves - The Book

Re: Hey, Rob! Shoulder Planes?????

#15

:-)

Lyn J. Mangiameli

>

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