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Flattening/Using Shaptons

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Flattening/Using Shaptons

#1

Flattening/Using Shaptons

Dan Clermont in Burnaby

>Hello Everyone,

Couple of years ago I bought a 5000 and 8000 grit set of SHaptons to go along with my 1000 grit Norton.

Now the Norton has worn allot faster but it does most of the work on lapping backs before I head off to the finer Shapton stones.

In the past I have used plate glass as a flattening medium and use the whole glass surface to try and avoid the center of the glass from wearing faster then the sides.

After awhile I have to replace the glass cause you start with 90 grit particles in the center and as you swirl the stones around you end up wearing down the the center of the glass faster then the sides so it becomes hollow in the center.

I find that when I get to using the Shapton 5000 and 8000 grit stones I cannot get a mirror polish on the back of my blades unless I place the stones in the laundry sink under running tap water and press relatively hard. I think what I am doing is pushing so hard that I deform the edge tool I am lapping as the Shaptons are not flat over the length of the stone. Not so many problems with smaller chisels and such.

I need to come up with a cost effective way of keeping these Shaptons flat and a way of not needing to run them under a tap when i need a mirror polish.

I am thinking about pulling myself out of the Shapton crowd and heading for the Norton camp or traditional Japanese stone camp if I can't find a solution.

For plane blades I use the David Charlesworth Ruler trick which is an ingenious method of creating a nicely polished edge which will take fine whispy shavings.

Dan Clermont

Re: Flattening/Using Shaptons

#2

Re: Flattening/Using Shaptons

Kurt Loup

>Using silicon carbide grit on an inexpensive flattening plate (<$20 from Highland Hardware or Japan Woodworker) works for me on my Shaptons and King stones. I'm using an 8000 Lee Valley and a Shapton M5 12,000 and get a nice polish with those two. My Shapton Pro 5000 does a good job as well. If you ditch the 8000 Shapton, I'm interested.

Kurt

Re: Flattening/Using Shaptons

#3

Re: Flattening/Using Shaptons

Dan Clermont in Burnaby

>Hi Kurt,

What grit are using to flatten the stones?

Thanks,

Dan Clermont

Re: Flattening/Using Shaptons

#4

Re: Flattening/Using Shaptons

Kurt Loup, Baton Rouge

>600 grit for the 5000, 8000 and 12000, 90 or 180 grit on my coarse stones and 280 grit on the 1000 and 2000. I purchased the grit combination from HH when I bought the flattening plate. The set includes 46, 90, 180, 280 & 400 grits. I got the 600 grit from another source. The 400 will likely work as well, but may leaves some scratches on the surface. If you go this route, experiment with the differnt grits. You may find a different grit combination works best for you.

Kurt

Re: Flattening/Using Shaptons

#5

Re: Flattening/Using Shaptons

Don Clark

>I use a piece of the wallboard sanding screen, laid on a piece of plate glass to flatten Shapton stones. You could also lay it on any flat surface, including MDF.

From a practical standpoint the 8000 grit Shapton should make your tools as sharp as you could possibly use, regardless of degree of polish.

I have a 5000 and 12000 Shapton and sometimes wonder why I bothered with the 12000. I just use it as a strop, but not always.

Re: Flattening/Using Shaptons

#6

How long does sanding screen take?

Brad in Ottawa

>I have heard that regular sanding paper is pretty much ineffective when it comes to sharpening Shaptons. I would have assumed that screens would be better but still slow going.

Dan, I use the Shapton lapping kit. I find it works fast. I got a super deal and had no choice but to take the lapping kit for free :)

I tried checking the archives but I couldn't find the message... I believe it was posted by Russell Seaton. He uses a plate from HF or JW and gets grits from a cheap source. I believe that his source sells grits for grinding/polishing lenses.

That's got to be appealing to you ... cheap and fast!

Brad

PS - I'll gladly take any Shapton's that you don't want!!!

Re: Flattening/Using Shaptons

#7

Re: Flattening/Using Shaptons

Paul in NJ

>Dan,

I use a 220 grit diamond stone really that works fast on the Shapton's. I purchased a DMT 2x6" stone on a plastic base that was not too expensive ($25 USD). I first put a series of lines on the Shapton's with a pencil to keep track of things and use a lot of water to clear the swarf while flattening. It is many times faster than sandpaper or drywall screens.

Paul Dzioba

Re: Flattening/Using Shaptons

#8

Re: Flattening/Using Shaptons

Bob L.

>Dan,

Contact Hirade Tools, Haroldson is the Shapton authority and can answer and help resolve the issues you have with Shapton stones.

Re: Flattening/Using Shaptons

#9

Don't know about Shaptons, but

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA

>I use them on my Kings and others. It's very quick, 5 min or less per stone depending on how out they are.

Re: Flattening/Using Shaptons

#10

Re: Flattening/Using Shaptons

Rick Hoppe (Los Angeles)

>Dan, I have come across this phenomenon. What is happening is the 90 grit is putting lots of deep scratches in the surface of your polishing stone, rendering it effectively, a courser grit stone (much as on a Tormek grinder, a grading stone is used on the grinding wheel to modify the effective grit of the wheel).

I use a 220/ 320 grit DMT diamond stone to flattenen my Shaptons. Nevertheless, I experienced the same problem on my 8000 grit stone as you have. I found I was using too much pressure and not enough water. The solution was to hold my diamond stone in one hand and the 8000 stone in the other and rub them together UNDER RUNNING WATER in the sink. I discovered this is the method Chris Schwarz, of Popular Woodworking, uses.

Re: Flattening/Using Shaptons

#11

Re: Don't know about Shaptons, but

Dan Donaldson

>I have some Kings as well as some Shaptons. The Shaptons are considerably harder than the Kings.

Re: Flattening/Using Shaptons

#13

Re: Flattening/Using Shaptons

Greg Sloop, Portland Oregon

>This is exactly how I flatten my Nortons. Works well, though I have no idea how well it works for Shaptons.

Cheers,

Greg

Re: Flattening/Using Shaptons

#14

Re: Mirrors

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Mirrored finishes are not inherently good, so stop worrying about that, causing other problems in the pursuit. Go for a brushed/polished metal appearance.

Pam

Re: Flattening/Using Shaptons

#15

Re: 220 Diamond "stone"

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Paul and Rick, have you found that the diamond stone lasts a reasonably long time when using it this way?

Thanks,

Pam

Re: Flattening/Using Shaptons

#16

Re: 220 Diamond "stone"

Paul in NJ

>So far I haven't noticed any wear but I have only had it for a few months. I don't use it for anything else but my water stones.

Paul Dzioba

Re: Flattening/Using Shaptons

#17

Re: Flattening/Using Shaptons *LINK*

steve knight

>forget getting DMT they don't have very course grits and they cost too much. the link is for diamond laps you get a thin metal lap and put it on a flat surface or get the master lap. 100 mesh is relaly course 120 or so is better courser and faster then 220 grit. there are other places to get them this was the first one I found. I even used these to flatten my makita while it was running.


diamond laps

Re: Flattening/Using Shaptons

#18

Re: Flattening/Using Shaptons *LINK*

Dan Clermont in Burnaby

>TOday I switched over to a piece of granite I had in the shop (not my reference plate) and tacked some 320 grit sandpaper to it.

The stones are flat, the polish is the same. Kind of a dull matte finish. I have been able to get a mirror polish using the 8000 grit shapton but I run it under the tap in the laundry tub and press hard.

The polish is quite good with very little effort but I am not always near the laundry tub.


Blade

Re: Flattening/Using Shaptons

#19

Thanks.

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>

Re: Flattening/Using Shaptons

#20

Re: Flattening/Using Shaptons

dburnard

>Getting a miror polish out of a polishing stone depends alot on how the grit from the stone breaks down as you work. A King S stone is only 6000 grit but it produces a fast mirror look because it's so "soft". The mirror effect can hide the fact that you've only removed 75% of the scratches from the previous stone. A really hard stone (sorry no shapton 8000 experience here, but lots of natural stones) will produce a very uniform but slightly hazy finish. Some times you'll let a hard stone do the work of removing the previous stones scratches and then finish with a softer stone just to really nail the edge

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