Plain Plane Faq, Please?

A confusing mess

Jim Reed @Tallahassee

>Plane numbering can be confusing because there are many manufacturers and many different types of planes. Sorry to say that planemakers have no common ground, like automakers (year produced). When you see numbers here, they generally reference Stanley model numbers. Lie Nielsen planes generally follow the Stanley line, so they are often the same. Look up Patrick's Blood & Gore for a good explanation of the Stanley line. As for woodies, they were generally numbered in sizes or as part of a series. European smoothers are often marked with blade width in mm. The best way to understand numbers is to collect every plane you find and then sort them by number.

Re: Plain Plane Faq, Please?

Dan Donaldson

>Garrett, It doesn't get much better than this.

Here is a search to a bunch of links for type studies.

We could get someont to write an article, but there is already a lot of work that has been done, and all we would be doing is using that data for the article.

One other thing;-)

Dan Donaldson

>I could add links on the links page for these pages, or whichever ones most people think are most useful.

Re: Plain Plane Faq, Please?

Dean J in MN

>I can't think of a better resource for plane numbering than the 'Blood and Gore' pages.

Using that you can at least get a idea of what a #5 is as far as size. Beyond that I guess I don't see the need to know about the numbering of planes. (Unless you are a building a collection of a specific type/age range I suppose) While the numbering is somewhat consistent in metal planes, it breaks down quickly in woodies. Even in non Stanley like bench planes it breaks down.

I feel a 'plain plane faq' is more useful to understand the classes of planes and within the class the common names and what job they do. We have stock prep planes and joint cutting planes, within those classes we have

lots of planes, with names like try, fore, jointer, shoulder, rabbet, jack, block... And those common names have basic size info, e.g. a try plane is (blank) to (blank) inches long and (blank) to (blank) wide. Understanding for what and how the planes are used is more important than what number is stamped on the casting.

My 2 cents...

Dean

Re: #s 1-8, 40, 45 , 55

Moses Yoder in White Pigeon, MI

>If you study a few numbers until you really commit them to memory you will be able to follow most of the conversations here without going for a book.

The numbers 1,2,3,4,4-1/2,5,5-1/4,5-1/2, 6,7 and 8 are Stanley bench planes. These are used simply to size a board and then smooth it for finishing. the #'s 1-4-1/2 are smoother planes; the smallest is the #1, the largest is a 4-1/2; used to smooth boards. 5, 5-1/4, and 5-1/2 are for general sizing; used before the smooth planes and after the scrub plane to make a board flat and to final thickness. 6, 7, and 8 are for jointing edges. #40 is the scrub plane; it is used for quick and dirty stock removal; there is also a 40-1/2, a longer scrub plane. #45 and #55 are combination planes made for producing various kinds of moldings. If you understand these few planes and can visualize them when you see the number in a conversation you will understand 75% of the hand tool conversations well. You'll catch on to the other planes reasonably fast as you see the number come up and look it up on Patrick's Blood & Gore.

The "type" number refers to a certain period of manufacture. Stanley changed the designs of the planes as years went by, and some people have studied catalogs and went through and figured out the characteristics of the planes during a certain time period and assigned numbers to these periods. If you collect planes you will learn to recognize a big difference between the early types and newer types, and you may recognize certain types without a book, but mostly I still have to go to the book to figure out what type the plane is.

Re: Plain Plane Faq, Please? *LINK*

Rick Hoppe

>Moses� explanation is a good start. Other terminology that is commonly used should also be included, such as:

Bedrock - a Stanley line of planes in all outward appearances like the standard line of bench planes but designed to hold the blade more solidly.

Bailey pattern � This is just another way of indicating a Stanley style plane (Leonard Bailey being the original designer)

York pitch � refers to a higher than normal bedding angle of the plane blade (50 degrees to the board surface instead of the normal 45 degrees)

The �� � designation on the Stanley numbering system refers to the same basic style, but with a wider blade and body.

The Blood and Gore information is way too detailed an introduction to Stanley planes.

Just a simple glossary would suffice.

Here is a good, simple reference to bench plane anatomy:


Plane Anatomy

Trouble a brewing

Adam Cherubini, NJ

>I think the effort is worthwhile. Only problem I see is associating the plane numbers with names and purposes. The names we use, the names Stanley used, are pretty arbitrary at best, and down right misleading at worst.

What's the name of a #78 again? I really can't remember. Better be something like fenced rabbet. Rabbets and fillesters aren't the same. Easy to confuse a beginner with this sort of baloney.

100 years ago we'd all be sitting around a wood stove talking about this. And when some young whippersnapper asked a question, we'd simply reach over and show the person and everything would be crystal clear. Here on the internet, terminology is much more important. Proper terminology helps a guy get useful information from a search engine for example, or helps someone find relevant forum messages.

I don't mean to throw water on anyone's good idea. I think it would be helpful. We just need to make sure we're careful with terminology so we don't confuse more people than we help. What's the difference between a #5 jack plane and a #6 fore plane again? Tell me again why, if the bedrock design reduces chatter, I need a jack plane with a bedrock frog? (Don't answer that Greg Sloop). If I have a bedrock #4, do I need a bedrock #5?

Here's my anti-quagmire advise: Article should have photos and technical specs (length, width, etc) and maybe a board that's been worked with the tool.

Adam

Re: Plain Plane Faq, Please?

L. Hanson

>There's a bit of trouble with it, as Adam mentions above - there's also the problem that different manufacturer's didn't always follow the same numbering standards as Stanley did.

Something of this nature has been started, there is a cross-reference article in PDF format right here on WoodCentral

and I believe it's Nichael Cramer who has put together an index that uses Patrick Leach's Blood and Gore for the descriptions on his web site here. That particular page links to 2 pages that reference the planes either by number (e.g. a #8) or by type (e.g. "jointer planes". Hopefully you find it useful...

Leif

NorseWoodsmith.com

Re: Plain Plane Faq, Please?

L. Hanson

>I should mention that the page I link to have some broken links, but is still valid - and dating the plane (the other type of "type" can be done at this link:

The Stanley Bench Plane Dating Page

This might have been mentioned in a previous post, I just thought I would add it for completeness.

A bunch of links...

L. Hanson

>Sorry to keep adding - but here's some more very helpful links about hand planes:

Popular Mechanics Bench Plane Basics

Popular Mechanics Block Plane Basics

Cian Perez's Index of galootish links

ToolNewz's Types of hand planes

Oldetoolshop's Wooden Planes - Types and Descriptions

Leif

NorseWoodsmith.com

Sooo?

Ernie Miller *Topeka

>where does bodger fit in? duckin & runnin

Re: Sooo?

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>I didn't think bodgers had much use for planes. I thought they used mostly drawknives, froes, spokeshaves, inshaves, travishers, adzs, scorps, spoonbits and the like?

Now, its my turn to duck and run :^)