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DIY spalting

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DIY spalting

#1

Steve Kubien

DIY spalting

Steve Kubien

>Quite a bit of controversy around here lately. I'd like to start the next great debate of our times...To spalt or not to spalt.

I seem to recall that there is a home-brew that can be made up and applied to certain woods to make them spalt. Anybody got a recipe and directions on how to use it? Will certain species be better effected by this process? I know maple can be quite beautiful (it's just my opinion! No need to tar-and-feather) but how will cherry, beech, birch or others be effected?

TIA,

Steve Kubien

Ajax, Ontario

Re: DIY spalting

#2

Re: DIY spalting

Bob Hackett

>In my neck of the woods all you have to do is put whatever wet wood you want to spalt in a trashbag and ignore it for 6 to 12 months.

Types of wood I`ve had good luck with,hard maple,hop hornbeam,birch,ash,beech,apple,white oak.

The place to look for alot of info in this area is on the turning forum.I became involved in "home spalting" thru turning.

Mainely,Bob

Re: DIY spalting

#3

Steve Kubien

Thanks Bob

Steve Kubien

>That was too easy. I knew I had seen that article somewhere but couldn't remember where. It is now printed off and will soon join other articles in my Book Of Other People's Wisdom.

Cheers,

Steve Kubien

Re: DIY spalting

#4

Re: DIY spalting

Ernie Miller Topeka

>I allways thought spalting occured from the presents of spores I have what I call a spalt pile that has some wood that is spalted where I throe the turning chunks I want to spalt let them set about 4-6 months and they usualy spalt.

Re: DIY spalting

#5

Re: DIY spalting

paul womack

>I've never got my head round this. I strive to do the best work I can, in the best materials I can get.

To me, (partial) decomposition is not something to seek in timber.

BugBear

Re: DIY spalting

#6

Don`t worry Bug

Bob Hackett

>We`ll drag you along,just hold on and try not to drag your feet too much.;^)

Mainely,Bob

Re: DIY spalting

#7

Steve Kubien

Re: DIY spalting

Steve Kubien

>Bugbear,

Well, when you put it THAT way...sure it sounds awful. Kinda like eating a cup of bacterial culture (yogurt) or bad dairy (sour cream).

But it can be pretty!

Steve Kubien

Re: DIY spalting

#8

And then there's blue cheese/roquefort

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>

Re: DIY spalting

#9

Steve Kubien

Dang!

Steve Kubien

>I was going to go have lunch too! Oh well, maybe later.

Re: DIY spalting

#10

Re: Dang!

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>I intended to suggest that if you haven't any spalted wood in progress with which to infect new wood, perhaps a piece of cheese would provide the starter spores.

Also, the cheese tastes great. Maybe you could throw in a piece of camembert, make some spalted cheese? :)

Pam

Re: DIY spalting

#11

Spores

Bob Hackett

>It`s my understanding that the required spores are already present in the green wood.

The black line spalting that most turners seek in maple and birch for example are a result of two different competing organisms at work and the lines are what`s called zone lines.

If I get a piece of spalted wood that has exceptional features then I sometimes put a scrap of that wood in the bag with the green wood to act as a seed piece hoping to get the same results in the new blank.So far I`m getting better an a 50% success rate.

Turners have been known to take this spalting thing very seriously.

personally I`m surprised that nobody has mentioned gorgonzola in previous posts.;^)

Mainely,Bob

Re: DIY spalting

#12

Spontaneous generation?

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>I thought most thoughts of spontaneous generation were invalidated some years ago, along about the time of Pasteur.

Pam

Re: DIY spalting

#13

A quick question

Bob Hackett

>Huh?

Mainely,Bob-Who knows who Pasteur is but didn`t get any of the rest of it.

Re: DIY spalting

#14

Re: A quick question

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Saying that spores are "already in there" is like saying maggots are "already in the meat." Not a chance. If you want a fungus to feed on wood, you've got to add the fungus, it's a separate animal (OK, there are some questions about whether fungi are animal or vegetable, but that's about the extent of any question about this). Or, fungi do not spontaneously generate from the wood.

Pam

Re: DIY spalting

#15

Spontaneous generation vs. being present

Bill Houghton, Sebastopol, CA, the rain's here

>I think Bob's argument is kind of like saying that the bacteria and virii that cause certain diseases like thrush are commonly present in the typical human body, waiting to grow though usually conquered by the body's immune system - which is true. Or, to use another example, the wild yeasts that cause sourdough starter to develop the flavors that make sourdough bread. I don't know whether the fungal spores are in fact present in the wood or merely fairly freely available in the air. Either way, it's not so much a matter of spontaneous generation of as opportunistic feeding.

Re: DIY spalting

#16

Re: A quick question

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>That's an interesting question, Pam. Most of the FPL literature on fungus damage of wood only addresses the criteria for fungal growth in wood, not the methods of initial infection. It is the growth, of course, that causes the damage. Very little is said about limiting initial infection by fungus spores, because they are pervasive in the environment. Whether they effectively enter the water conducting tissues of the trees, e.g., through the stomata of the leaves or through the cilia of the roots, and are then dispersed through the phloem and xylem is not clear, but is probably a moot point, since there are so many other ways they can get into the wood, either through weather or insect damage, or during the harvesting, cutting, drying and distribution of the wood. It's no wonder that the ancients without microscopes were so easily convinced of the veracity of spontaneous generation. In any case, there are spores in the environment, and they will make contact with the wood, or the milk or the eggs or the cabbage, no matter what we do to prevent them short of hermetically sealing the product and irradiating it. The issue is which ones and how many get there, and whether the conditions are right to encourage their growth and subsequent production of spalting, cheese, yoghurt, hundred year old eggs, kim chee, or good rich garden soil. If all else fails, when all danger of frost has passed, plant tomatoes.

Re: DIY spalting

#17

species

Tom Sontag - St. Louis

>Cherry does not really spalt, but birch and beech can and will as nicely as maple. The secret is really warmth and moisture and time, but nothing is guaranteed. There is a recipe to introduce some molds in "Russ's Corner" to your left.

Re: DIY spalting

#18

Re: Russ' brew

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Thanks for that reference, Tom, had no idea it was there.

Pam

Re: DIY spalting

#19

Re: A quick question

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>It just seems to me that it's a reasonable amount of work to bag the wood and check on it; so to be sure something interesting will happen, add some gunk like Russ' brew. And it's true that spores are pretty much everywhere, but not at all times and under all conditions. I suspect that in the cold, dry winter in Canada there aren't too many active, perhaps not even dormant, spores; whereas here in Austin it rarely gets cold enough to kill anything.

Microscopes are good. :)

Pam

Re: DIY spalting

#20

Re: Spontaneous generation vs. being present

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>You're probably right, Bill. I started out just trying to tease Bob, but as these things go...

Reminded me of the class I once took on native Americans and their reactions to the European invasions (amazingly enough, there was a lot written and legends told contemporaneously by them about this). At least one of my classmates was native american (this was on Cape Cod); and when he started talking about how his people sprung complete from the earth, all I could think of was spontaneous generation. When he agreed that his people did indeed spontaneously generate, I was a bit embarrassed. No point in arguing with that kind of faith, nor in commenting at all.

Pam

Re: DIY spalting

#21

Surprise!

Bob Hackett

>Some of my best results have been with wood that I bagged and left outside all winter long and only re-discovered in the spring.

I bagged up some paper birch root burl and forgot some in the corner of the shop as well as outside.The piece retrieved from the snowbank was still useable while the blank found under the "to do" pile in the shop was almost too punky to salvage.Same spalting,just differing levels of deterioration.

One thing I will advise is to not waste your time on soft maple.

Mainely,Bob-Who can`t believe Pam would think about teasing him him.How do you tease a flat-top w/whitewalls?

Re: DIY spalting

#22

I was going to say...

Brad in Ottawa

>You've never seen my brother's fridge. It is pretty cold but it isn't as dry as it gets outside.

That said it seems to have a lot of life! (It adds all sorts of color to his Cheddar cheese and fruits.)

Brad

Re: DIY spalting

#23

Re: species

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>And then, of course, there's box elder (very closely related to maple) which spalts with remarkable rose colored streaks, even if you don't do anything special to it.

Re: DIY spalting

#24

not spalt

Tom Sontag - St. Louis

>Wm,

I do not think that the rose coloring in box elder qualifies as "spalt". The late Jon Arno went into this at length one time and I do not recall the scientific details, but black line spalt for instance is from the white rot fungus and of course is relatively permanent but the rose in box elder is a different kind of chemical that is found in the living tissue and fades in sunlight, ie. not a fungus. I realize this distinction does not prove my point other than perhaps support that the rose coloring is not white rot, but as I said, I am no chemist/botanist.

Re: DIY spalting

#25

not tested by me

Tom Sontag - St. Louis

>I have not tested this recipe. It does sound like food for fungus though.

👍 This page answered my questions

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