Lazy breadboard ends

Strength

Sam Simpson

>Hi Y'all,

Moses, are you making sitting benches? The 14'" seems too short for a WW bench. In either case my first thought is leverage. I guess you could always make the bread board end narrower, say 1". A small groove attaching a 21/2" strip seems like if you put any weight on the end it will break off. That would be the idea of the tenon, to add strength. You don't need to tenon the entire length, in fact, it's better if to don't. two or three narrower tenons are better, with a haunch in-between.

Why are you even considering short cuts in something that you consider good enough for a magazine article?

Regards Sam Simpson.

Re: Lazy breadboard ends

Clay C in Miami

>Back on my home computer, I have a photo of a Greene and Greene breadboard end, that I think was a loose tenon the entire width of the breadboard, with the groove cut the way you describe and a similar groove on the end of the table boards ('course their tenon was solid ebony). If I remember it right, the tenon was just a bit longer than the grooves, so it stood proud at the ends - that way expansion/shrinkage of the table boards wasn't so noticeable.

Clay

Re: Strength

Moses Yoder in White Pigeon, MI

>I can envision the smaller tenons with a haunch in between as the way to go, and can make this relatively easily. This is the way I'll go. The Greene & Greene splined breadboard end would be neat and fairly easy but not exactly fitting with the style of the bench.

They are sitting benches. One of them will go between two dormers, is 48" long, and has ends on it that you can put a pillow against to set with your back to the end and look out the window. The other is just a flat top sitting bench for an entry, to set on and take you boots off with storage underneath. I don't think they are good enough for an article, but perhaps good enough for the gallery ;) The reason I am thinking of ways to cut down on the amount of time spent is that I want to get them done ;) But this is the hardest part of the project for me; nearly done, but still so far to go. Impatient.

G & G breadboard ends

Wiley Horne--Glendora CA

>Hi Clay,

I'm pretty sure what you're looking at is a traditional 'stopped' mortise in the breadboard. G & G detailed the ends of the breadboard with ebony plugs, which covered the counterbores for the screws. These counterbores have a slotted washer in the bottom to permit differential movement of tenon and breadboard.

What they put on the ends of the breadboard was a shallow mortise: A long ebony plug was glued to the long grain of the table, and this plug simply floats in the shallow mortise of the breadboard, which , as you say, masks seasonal movement. At least in theory--there is at least one case where the plug is not wide enough, and it recesses into the breadboard during really dry weather.

Wiley

This detail is illustrated in the Randall Makinson book, 'Greene & Greene: Furniture & Related Designs'. It is also to be found in an old FWW issue, but I don't know which one.

G & G in FWW 12

Russ Allen- Chicago

>Wiley,

Issue 12 has a Greene and Greene desk on the cover. The tounge and groove detail is on shown on page 43.

Russ

Re: Lazy breadboard ends

HC Sakman

>Hi Moses,

Happy new year.

I've tried many different ways of doing that joinery and my fastest, easiest and safe conclusion:

Groove both sides, glue both grooves then spline it. Spline should be cross-grain though, same direction as the centerpiece, not the breadboard ends. grooves can be blind or through, it's a design matter, constructually makes no difference.

No failure yet! Around 150+ joints.

Chico...

Re: Lazy breadboard ends

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Wouldn't a "through groove" be two pieces of wood? And how do you "glue a groove?"

Pam

Re: Lazy breadboard ends

HC Sakman

>Hi Pam,

I meant apply glue to both grooves, which receive the spline that goes in between them.

Chico...

Re: Lazy breadboard ends

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Thanks, Chico. I've found this whole thread very confusing. Now I see that was because I didn't realize you guys were talking about splines, which would require two grooves. You all kept saying "spline" and I kept thinking tenon.

Pam

Re: Lazy breadboard ends

Don Thompson - Cutler Ridge, Florida

>It started out with Moses talking about a sort-of-breadboard end with tongue-and-groove joinery, then morphed into spline and grooves.

Re: Lazy breadboard ends

Alan Hamilton

>Moses,

If you're going to run the groove and tongue out the ends, you could jazz it up a bit by doing a sliding dovetail. That would make it look less like a shortcut and more like a carefully considered design feature. So long as you're going to assign this job to a screaming, forked-tail, apprentice, a sliding dovetail wouldn't take much longer than a tongue and groove.

Alan