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Mortising Gauge *LINK*

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Mortising Gauge *LINK*

#1

Mortising Gauge *LINK*

Brent Langdon, Sterling VA

>I have a couple measuring and marking tools on my Christmas wish list but I suspect that I will instead get some sweaters and a couple dollars to shop for myself. I recently saw a demonstration that pointed out how useful a mortising gauge is for laying out mortises and tenons. So now I have one on my *need* list but I am trying to decide how nice of one I need.

The Best Things list the Joseph Marples Trial 1 Rosewood Marking/Mortice Gauge for $46. If they have it in stock, I can swing by and pick it up in person. This seems like a reasonable price, but they also list a Beech version (no brass) for only $13. Lee Valley has a few listed that range from $25 to $45 and Joel has a slightly wider range.

What do you think? Should I spend $46 on the Trial 1 or go for a less expensive model and put the extra money toward maybe a marking knife or another chisel?

- Brent


http://www.thebestthings.com/newtools/marples_measure.htm

Re: Mortising Gauge *LINK*

#2

Re: Mortising Gauge

Todd from San Jose

>One of the most important features of a mortising gauge is that the blade is removable for sharpening. Many don't have this feature, so take a careful look at the ones you're considering.

I personally like the japanese marking gauges for their width and stability. Japan Woodworker has some nice ones.

-Todd

Re: Mortising Gauge *LINK*

#3

Jim in Burlington Ont.

Re: Mortising Gauge *LINK*

Jim in Burlington Ontario

>The LV one I linked to is very nice and hand friendly. Personally I use a old one like the one in the top left of the page. They often appear on e-bay in the 50 dollar range.


img

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.asp?page=49901&category=1,42936,42948&ccurrency=2&SID=

Re: Mortising Gauge *LINK*

#4

Re: Mortising Gauge *LINK*

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>I use two types, one ebony number like Jim shows and one Japanese cutting/mortising gauge that I made using the same blades Kinshiro uses (purchased from Hiraide). The Kinshiro gauges are a bit more pleasurable to use than my homemade version, very precise.

At any rate, I really like both types; although I don't much care for having to find a screwdriver every time I need to adjust the ebony one. This is done so that you don't have a thumb screw in the way, but it's still tedious.

Pam


Kinshiro cutting/mortising gauges

Re: Mortising Gauge *LINK*

#5

Re: Mortising Gauge

Mike Real

>Japanese, definitely. I have one from Japanese woodworker and it gives a clear line. With repeated runs overs, it gives me a guide for saw cutting. Also a pleasure to sharpen. Mike from Pittsburgh

Re: Mortising Gauge *LINK*

#7

Re: Mortising Gauge

R.J.Whelan

>Brent ... I really like the Tite-Mark carried by L-N. I have three of them, which is really convenient in that you can leave them set until the project is finished (very useful when you have a little opps and have to recut a tenon on a new piece of material) ... rj

Re: Mortising Gauge *LINK*

#9

Ditto- same one I use and recommend

Todd from San Jose

>

Re: Mortising Gauge *LINK*

#10

Jim in Burlington Ont.

Re: My my Jim...

Jim in Burlington Ontario

>Pics out of a book. I do own a few seems more like a search for the perfect one.

Re: Mortising Gauge *LINK*

#11

Re: Mortising Gauge *LINK*

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>All I'm going to offer are some observations on design shortcomings of various gauges that can result in inconsistencies, inaccuracies, and inconveniences.

First, I would not recommend the all-beech gauges because the beech fence wears and the plastic knob cannot securely lock the beech beam. A brass face, and a brass knob against a brass strip in the beam work a lot better for a lot longer. Still, if there is any side-to-side play between the beam and the square hole in the fence, the beam can move and change your adjustment.

Mortise gauges benefit from cutters that are beveled only on the inside, like the Japanese gauges the others have mentioned, and that can be removed for sharpening.

If one wedge, or thumbscrew locks/loosens both cutters simultaneously, you will have extreme difficulties adjusting the distance between the fence and the near side of the gauge without also adversely affecting the width of the mortise and tenon. Since both widths should be the same, and won't change unless you change your mortise chisel, you don't want that setting to move every time you move your fence. This is a common shortcoming of all the Oriental gauges I have seen.

I currently use a Crown, similar in design to the fancy Marples in the link. L-V sells the Crown for $42.50. These two are the only currently manufactured ones that I know of that allow adjusting the fence without changing the width of the mortise. I still don't like the possibility that the beam will rotate a couple of degrees, and that the blades are not removable.

Dave Jaske, at Blue Spruce Tool Works, builds an elegant gauge, with alas only one cutter, that solves the beam rotation issue. Stanley and others, in olden times, built gauges that also attempted to solve this problem, but putting the thumbscrew on the side, instead of on the bottom of the fence.

For more options, you might want to pursue antique Stanley and other manufacturers' products. For example, reference the The Stanley Gage Page

As far as I know, the ultimate mortise gauge has not yet been invented. I could go on and on regarding its requirements, with comments on visibility of the cutters, shape, size and ergonomics of the fence, micro-adjustments, graduations, etc. marking wheels, bevel angles, types of steel, etc. but it doesn't matter a lot, because you should be able to adapt to whatever you have, and fix your errors, or the gauges errors, with planes, paring chisels, veneer glued to the cheeks, liberal application of modern glues, pinned tenons, etc.

Re: Mortising Gauge *LINK*

#12

Well, we have good taste...

Scott Burr Ben Lomond,CA

>Did you have to fet yours much Todd?

Re: Mortising Gauge *LINK*

#13

Re: Mortising Gauge

paul womack

>With repeated runs overs, it gives me a guide for saw cutting.

?

When do you use a saw on mortices?

BugBear

Re: Mortising Gauge *LINK*

#14

Re: I use this one...

paul womack

>It looks more trouble than other gauges; it appears that a single screw releases both the blades and the fence.

With most western mortice gauges you can easily adjust the fence position without mussing up your mortise size setting.

BugBear

Re: Mortising Gauge *LINK*

#15

Well, there are always tenons.

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>

Re: Mortising Gauge *LINK*

#16

Re: Mortising Gauge

paul womack

>Still, if there is any side-to-side play between the beam and the square hole in the fence, the beam can move and change your adjustment.

Stanley had an answer to this.

here's the 1951 patent US 2579205.

I don't think a mortice gauge was ever manfufactured using this idea, but a marking gauge was - the #5061, which I use and love. I've also converted one into a cutting gauge.

BugBear

Re: Mortising Gauge *LINK*

#17

Re: Mortising Gauge

Don Thompson - Cutler Ridge, Florida

>Did you carve up the Crown to make it more comfortable?

Re: Mortising Gauge *LINK*

#18

Re: Well, we have good taste...

Wendell @ Murphy, TX

>What did you have to fettle? I was looking at buying one of these, but if it is a pain to get working properly, I'd rather pass.

Wendell

Re: Mortising Gauge *LINK*

#19

Re: Mortising Gauge

Charles

>Get a Tite Mark gauge with the mortising marking wheels. Nothing comes close to the precision mark a wheel gauge leaves behind. And it does it literally straight out of the box - no pin filing etc.

They are truly an improvement over traditional gauges.

Re: Mortising Gauge *LINK*

#20

Re: Mortising Gauge

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Let me guess here: Did you just finish a week with Rob Cosmo?

Pam

Re: Mortising Gauge *LINK*

#21

Just the blades...

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA

>They needed to be flattened and sharpened. One nice thing here is that they are hollowed like Japanese chisels, so they flatten and polish quickly. One bad thing is there skewed blades make for only freehand sharpening. It wasn�t that difficult to do.

I had to square the larger blade in a vice with a hammer to get it to 90 deg angle.

All of this took me an hour or so. I'm a slow worker too.

I feel it�s a good gauge for the price.

Re: Mortising Gauge *LINK*

#22

The screw holds the blades,

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA

>not the fence. The fence is stationary. Just simply slide the blades where you want them and tighten down the screw. It's very easy to set up.

Re: Mortising Gauge *LINK*

#23

Re: Well, we have good taste...

Todd from San Jose

>Hi Scott,

Mine was pretty straightforward to tune- I just flattened the backs and sharpened the bevels freehand on waterstones. I did not run into the issue you did of a non-square blade. I like the wide japanese blades much better than the nail-style found on western gauges.

Todd

Re: Mortising Gauge *LINK*

#24

Re: Well, we have good taste...

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>And I love the ability to slice thin pieces, too, very handy for making strings and tiny kumiko.

Pam

Re: Mortising Gauge *LINK*

#25

Thanks

Brent Langdon, Sterling VA

>Thanks a lot! I am not sure that my question was answered in there but I learned a bit (especially from William's post). I will probably pick up an English style gauge and see how it works out. It has got to work out better than using a cheap square and pencil.

The $30 Japanese gauge listed looks interesting but I could see how it could be tricky to move the fence without changing the cutter width. I think that the Kinshiro Kamagehiki models are a little out of my budget!

I have one of the single wheel marking gauges from Lee Valley (I may have purchased it at Woodcraft). I find it very difficult to mark a straight line with the grain.

- Brent

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