Infill Plane Making Article *LINK*

Re: Infill Plane Making Article

paul womack

>Nice to see stuff hittin' the main stream, but I suspect there's been more detailed infill expertise and information through BP and WC (and member's websites) than Shopnotes is likely to print.

BugBear

Brass Body & Box Joints

Don Thompson - Cutler Ridge, Florida

>Interestingly, the plane is made from brass sides and bottom, connected with soldered-together box joints - no dovetails.

Infill gurus - any thoughts on all-brass, soldered, and no dovetails for a smoother-sized plane?

Re: Brass Body & Box Joints

CJ McLaughlin

>I've had to silver solder too-loose steel dovetail joints before. Its a mess and you'll spend some time getting the sides nice and square after heating things up. Oh, and the wooden block used to keep the sides square to the sole will burn. A lot of fun.

Perhaps brass would be easier. Or perhaps someone will take pity on me and teach me how to do this properly some time.

CJ

Re: Brass Body & Box Joints

wayne

>(At the risk of being labeled a "tool snob"):

You're kidding, right?

Sorta like asking a furniture maker if glue and staples compares to a good dovetailed joint.

Though I guess one advantage of solder over a proper dovetailed joint is the learning curve for lighting a torch is shorter ;^)

Ducking and running...

Wayne

Re: Infill Plane Making Article

Moses Yoder in White Pigeon, MI

>I don't see how dovetailing the sides and bottom together would be so difficult to do, and it seems to me the advantages over a box joint where you are hoping the solder will hold would be nearly infinite. Just calling it how I see it ;)

Why not just take a piece of chanel iron...

Doug Evans

>I am actually happy to see another infill plane article and I am happy to see that people out there take new approaches to old ideas.

For us dovetailing is relatively easy as the sidewalls are laser cut, ensuring our dimensions. It takes me about 40 minutes or so to files and dovetail a smoother together. In my case though, I have a bunch of "buck blocks" already made, my hands know the angles, sequences, etc. Most of the cottage builders layout the parts and hand-cut the dovetails. I suspect Wayne does and perhaps he could comment on the additional time here.

As I said, I'm glad to see someone getting out there and being creative. Lately, I've been fooling around as a wanna-be pattern-maker, taking my lead from some patterns I bought in Scotland a few years back. Certainly the results will be quite a flip.

A lot of the high-end cast gunmetal infill planes employed a sweated steel sole (Norris 20R/E Shoulders, A17's etc.).

Iles welds his curved sidewall plane, Steve Thomas blew us away with his "loopy" infill.

Dovetailing infill planes has been around pretty much as long as casting them and not much long after planemaking became a profession. It did not really become commercialized until Spiers, about 1841.

Dovetailing is not that magical - in fact, it is far easier to build a dovetailed infill plane than a cast one... if only they had a CNC Mill in Victorian Scotland... the inside shell is relatively square making for faster fits and easier processes.

Any news is good news... just spell my name right!

Cheers,

Doug

Re: Infill Plane Making Article

Mike Schlesinger in Northern Maine

>I didn�t realize it was soldered, not dovetailed. Kind of a let down. Now I�m not so enthused about trying to find a copy of the magazine.

Re: Why not just take a piece of chanel iron...

joel

>before dovetailing, before casting, the early French and Italian metal planemakers (c 15th- 18th century) just brazed their planes together. No interlocking, just rest the body on the sole and stick them in the furnace with soem silver solder.

Re: Why not just take a piece of chanel iron...

Wayne Anderson

>Doug's right. Many high-end planes have sweated on steel soles. There's nothing magical about dovetails, just takes time and practice. I happen to like the look, though recently I tried a new (for me) technique that suited the style of plane I was making. I don't have a picture of the bottom, but the sides and sole are joined with through tenons. Of course the holes were tapered rectangles, and the sole was piened and filed flush.

oops...

Wayne Anderson

>Photo was too large, so I created a link.

Wayne

Beautiful Work!!

Mike Schlesinger in Northern Maine

>Wayne,

Another absolutely stunning plane!!!! I hope to try making my first dovetailed infill in the spring. Unfortunately I don�t have a heated shop. With temperatures between �7 and 20, I will have to wait.

Please update your website more frequently. I check it often, but it has not been updated in a month and a half. I am sure many of us would like to see more of your work, especially the work in progress. It is a real inspiration.

Mike

More pictures of Wayne's plane

Christopher Schwarz

>This seems a good time to post some additional photos of Wayne' old style "miter" plane. Taken at my bench this morning.

Mouth in the Middle

Christopher Schwarz

>Here is a photo of the sole of the plane that shows the mouth located near the middle of the sole's length. I like the mouth there. A lot.

Plus you can see the interesting manner in which Wayne joined the brass sidewalls to the sole.

And a last one

Christopher Schwarz

>I use this plane for a little bit of everything. I have the iron slightly cambered and use it in the same places I'd use a No. 3 smoother. Also, the extensions allow me to use it like a block plane to clean up toolmarks on edges (the blade camber allows me to correct any "technique" issues I have while edge planing).

Most people who see photos ask if that Acanthus leaf is a wombly bit. It looks delicate but the sucker is stout. When working a board's face I lean my weight directly on the leaf at the beginning of a pass. No flex.

The tool is an utter joy to use. I make excuses (such as this thread) to get the thing out and use it.

Chris

Re: Brass Body & Box Joints

Ben Knebel

>Well--obviously I have a bias and while I appluad anyone's efforts to build an infill plane the resulting plane certainly isn't historically correct. Infill planes were either cast--in iron or bronze(gunmetal) or dovetailed together. If they were cast in bronze they often had an applied steel sole(sweated on).

While Norris did weld or solder in their later planes they were the only ones that did that that I am aware of and they did it--in my opinion--because it was a little easier from a manufacturing standpoint.

A long way of saying that if you're going to build an infill then do it with a proper sense of history and tradition and use one of the historically correct methods of construction i.e.--19th century construction.

Regards and May you and yours have a Merry Christmas and a healthy and properous New year

Ben

Re: And a last one

David Hammond, in Powder Springs GA

>What a fantastic plane! Gorgeous Wayne, absolutely stunning.

David

That wedge pin

Clay C in Miami

>I assume that wedge pin with the fancy profile is flat on the back side, facing the wedge?

Clay

Thanks Chris

Bob Hackett

>That`s what I was waiting for.

Now if I can get my keyboard to dry out...

MB

Re: That wedge pin

Wayne Anderson

>Yes, the bridge is flat on the backside. It looks like it may have been done on a lathe, but it was done with files. There is a pin through it so it swivels. Wayne

with files?

Clay C in Miami

>OK, I have to ask ... why? Sure looks to my noob eyes like it'd be easier to turn the whole thing, then flatten one side afterward. I'm sure there's a reason ... but, what is it?

TIA,

Clay

Re: Brass Body & Box Joints

Don Thompson - Cutler Ridge, Florida

>I sort of thought it was not a great idea, but not only have I never made a soldered brass plane, I have never even seen an infill plane. (lots of great articles/threads/books and pix, though)

BTW, got any neat new planes to share pix of?

Never mind, saw the great pix down-thread.

Don Thompson - Cutler Ridge, Florida

>

Tongue and groove joint ?

Mike Schlesinger in Northern Maine

>Wayne,

Is the tongue and groove joint in the sole also done with files?

Mike

Re: clarification?

paul womack

>A long way of saying that if you're going to build an infill then do it with a proper sense of history and tradition and use one of the historically correct methods of construction i.e.--19th century construction.

Is this because of a desire to preserve history, or because it's the best technical solution?

BugBear