Treadle lathe question

Re: Treadle lathe question

Victor Parisian

>Peter I think you have a good idea there. I'm assuming the lathe would have a some sort of flywheel arrangement to keep the speed relatively constant. If you are worried about stopping quickly, you could always add a caliper brake from an old bicycle. I think you would want it foot activated. The purists on this board will certainly object.

Re: Treadle lathe question

Bob Hackett

>If I remember correctly the AAW did an article with detailed drawings on a footpowered lathe with a flywheel and pawl mechanism.One of the chapters did it as a group project.

FWW also did an article on a similar lathe that used a bicycle hub and drivechain as the pawl and power for the flywheel,the author was Richard Starr.Don`t know what issue it originally appeared in but it and plans for a traditional treadle lathe can be found in thier "Making and Modifying Machines" compilation from Taunton Press.

Mainely,Bob

Re: Treadle lathe question *LINK*

Fred Peake

>There is an article by Richard Starr in the book Fine Woodworking on Making and Modifying Machines which uses a bicycle freewheel and chain mechanism to couple the treadle to the flywheel. In priciple it works just like it does on a bicyle, you can pedal and then coast when you need a breather. I don't know how well it would work in practice and might be a bit noisy. I have a springpole lathe based upon a design in one of Roy Underhill's books, and don't find the intermittent rotation to be a problem. It just takes some getting used to. Here is a link to a FAQ with some good suggestions.


Treadle Lathe FAQ

Re: Treadle lathe question

Fred in NC

>I am very interested in this thread, since I plan to start working on a treadle lathe after the holidays.

Re: Treadle lathe question

Adam Cherubini, NJ

>Peter,

I�ve seen lathes using a bicycle wheel with attached freewheel as the flywheel. The rim was weighted. The treadle pulled a length of bicycle chain which was in turn attached to a length of shock cord.

It worked just as you say; You could pump, pump, pump the treadle and get the work piece really spinning.

I have some limited experience using an early 19th century treadle. Kicking the treadle is not difficult and the rhythm can be nice. Its not obtrusive. I tend to change speed as needed without thinking about it. Not sure an arrhythmic approach would be as nice. But that�s not to say that the freewheel need necessarily be arrhythmic. You could work it just like the old wheels.

What I liked about the freewheel lathe was that power transmission was really smooth. Whenever you put your foot down you added speed. With the old timer, you have to catch the treadle at the top. You really don�t want to leave your foot on the treadle since that slows the spindle down.

Also, on the freewheel lathe, when the spindle was going fast enough or for whatever reason you didn�t want to kick the treadle, the treadle wasn�t moving with the spindle, slowing it down. For the old timer, you want the lightest possible treadle. The pitman arm on good lathes is horizontal for this reason. A requirement to have a light weight treadle may mean there�s a practical limit to the length of the treadle and thus the bed.

Lastly, you can use a bicycle derailleur to change gears (I forget if the lathe I saw had such a set-up.) This seems to be real advantage as well.

I think the ratcheting flywheel is a good idea. I can imagine it would have been too complicated and expensive to be worthwhile in the 18th/19th centuries, and wouldn�t have provided a benefit worthy of the complexity.

All said, I�m not quite sure what the point is. The treadle lathes I�ve seen aren�t silent. In fact they are not always quieter than my electric lathe. The slow speed and low torque can be beneficial for learners, but this can be accomplished on older belt driven lathes just as easily.

Adam

Re: Treadle lathe question

paul womack

>All said, I�m not quite sure what the point is.

Fun!

BugBear

Re: Treadle lathe question

Dan Klauder

>Okay - This is just too cool! I am finally going to have to break my long-term lurker status and post something.

I too have a "seemingly endless obsession with researching, designing, and ultimately building a treadle lathe" in fact it is sitting in various parts out in the shop. I started with Starr's idea and then started combining that with St. Roy's "Lathe from a Loft" model. I threw in some "Shop Notes" ideas for good measure and have created quite the "Frankenlathe".

My main concern with the straight Starr approach was low turning speed - although since my total turning experience approaches zero I am not sure this is even valid.

Anyway, my idea is: treadle connected to chain, connected to a bicycle freewheel mounted on an axle, large wooden flywheel also mounted on the same axle, rope connecting flywheel to stepped pulley mounted on the headstock axel. I have no idea if this will work - I haven't reached a stage in construction to actually test it out yet. If it does work I will try to post a picture if you are interested.

I love this place - Dan

Re: Treadle lathe question

Adam Cherubini, NJ

>I can say this about that. The former Master at Pennsbury was a life long turner and before he died he gave me this piece of advice: If you want to learn to turn, turn slowly. He was talking about 200rpm. Its very easy to turn at this speed because you can really see what's going on and react to it. I think this is crucial to becoming a decent turner.

From my limited experience with our treadle lathe, I can say that you don't rough on it. Its really more efficient to rough on a shave horse and introduce a semi rounded work piece to the lathe. The treadle just doesn't have the power. You can't go jamming your dull HSS roughing gouge into it. See at these low flywheel speeds, you simply haven't got much inertia. To create more, you need one of two things: more speed or a heavier wheel.

What you see on old treadles are iron wheels with heavy rims. My wheel is cast iron (4 spokes) and has a lead rim. You don't want the wheel to get too heavy or your have problems supporting it, bearing wear issues, increased friction, etc. It makes sense to keep the center of the wheel light and load the rim. I'm not sure exactly how heavy my wheel is. But its probably more than 50lbs (its about the size of a bicycle wheel). It looks very similar to the wheel in Jay Gaynor's "18th century Woodworking Tools" book.

I think treadle lathes are challenging pieces of engineering. I wouldn't assume that every one you see works acceptably. We have a great wheel lathe at Pennsbury based on the great wheel from the Dominy shop (I think CW copied the same wheel). We certainly haven't worked the bugs out of this tool. There's way too much friction and no where near enough inertia for it to be practical, IMHO. That's not to disaparage the men (including dear belated Palmer) who built it. But it raises the question of the efficiency/ usefulness of the great wheel in the Dominy shop. They may have built it and abandoned it. They had other lathes.

Whatever you do, make a heavy wheel. Oh and keep in mind how the pulley sizes play a part in all this. 200rpm at the spindle, might be 50 at the flywheel.

Adam

Re: Treadle lathe question

Dave Anderson Chester, NH

>Hi Adam-

The great wheel lathe at Wmsbg gets used as needed. Three years ago I watched Phil Lowe turn both the pedestal and the top for a 36" diameter Philadelphia style pie crust table top while on stage at the 18th Century Furniture Conference. Phil had never turned on one before and did right well inspite of a fear of embarrassing himself in fron of an audience of about 250. Very sharp tools, proper edge presentation, and a very lite touch are critical when working at a low rpm.

By the way, were you able to get that guy's registration posted on the SAPFM website? I'd like to get to see you in Wmsbrg this January.

Re: Treadle lathe question

Adam Cherubini, NJ

>Yes Dave, I have a ticket to the second session and am really looking forward to it. We should start a thread and find out if any one else from here is going.

I have heard that story about Phil Lowe. I heard both the lathe and the great wheel were moving quite a bit. The wheel had to be screwed to the floor? I also heard the wheel was exhausting to turn.

Not to diminish Mr. Lowe, but any experienced turner should be able to work easily with a great wheel lathe. Its a little trickier kicking a treadle just because you are standing on one leg. Our friend Dave says after an afternoon working the treadle, his back is sore and the leg he stands on gets sore. He tries to switch legs, but I suspect he is more comfortable with one leg in particular just because of the way he holds his tools.

Period images often show bars to lean against or sit upon connected to the lathe.

These are fascinating devices. I hope to examine the lathes at CW. One would assume they have worked the bugs out.

Adam

I`d talk to the Wizzard.

Bob Hackett

>Albert LeCoff in Philly PA.

While the AAW may be a great resource for woodturning knowledge I `ve found Albert to be the best single source of useful contacts to people who are actually doing the things and know the answers to the questions you`re asking.Albert has many times been able to put both my brother, myself,and many other woodturners we know in direct contact to people who have already solved the problem or are researching the same problem and we don`t have to go over the same ground twice.

If you want answers contact him at: turnon@woodturningcenter.org or go thru the site at www.woodturningcenter.org.

I can`t overstate how much help Albert can be,he is in fact the Wizzard of woodturning and all things related.

Mainely,Bob

Re: Treadle lathe question

Don Thompson - Cutler Ridge, Florida

>Is your lathe like the one in illustration #62? Pretty cool.

The costume that fellow on the cover is wearing looks familiar...