Tenon Saw Question

Re: Tenon Saw Question

paul womack

>Despite the intended cut of the teeth does anyone have just one tennon saw and cheat for using it both ways?

The primary use a tenon saw (AKA large backed saw) is basic crosscutting, and cutting tenon shoulders.

Hence yer' normal tenon saw has Xcut teeth.

The only common use for a rip tenon saw is cutting tenon cheeks. This goes faster and cleaner with rip teeth.

The latter is a luxury IMHO.

I'd get a Xcut. If ya' got the dough for a LN,, that would work fine.

BugBear

Re: Tenon Saw Question

Dean J in MN

>I second BugBear, get the Xcut...

Something else to ponder, I use a bowsaw to cut the tenon cheeks. 24" 9 tpi, rip. For me it is faster and eaiser than using a backsaw, mostly due to the length of the blade. Now if I could find a 24" backsaw.... :)

-Dean

rip teeth

Tim of Dublin

>My experience is only with japanese pull saws. I'd go with rip teeth. The points will be fairly fine - I'm assuming cabinet/furniture size tenons and not timberframe - for the size saw you'll want. I've used my rip dozuki to crosscut with very good results.

When the rip teeth get larger or are filed more for green or softer lumber, they don't work so well crosscutting....IME. Also, crosscutting with rip teeth in softer woods gives poorer results than doing the same in more dense woods.

YMMV. That is, I have no clue if my experience translates to Western saws.

Tim

Disagree....sort of

Adam Cherubini, NJ

>The tenon saw was traditionally filed rip. Its purpose was sawing tenon cheeks. In the days when frame and panel work was done by hand, this was the saw used to saw the 4�, 6�, or greater width tenons (picture a raised panel door). Its back allowed the blade to be thin, which made this massive rip go faster. It also helped make a very accurate cut. Traditional tenon saws were long and coarsely toothed. In later years, this work was done on machines and tenon saws �morphed� into something else.

The shoulder, by contrast is pretty easy to saw with just about anything. It�s very easy to clean up a shoulder (because even on a door it�s a small feature) with a shoulder plane. I prefer to use a chisel for various irrelevant reasons.

The tools offered by LN, Adria and others bear little resemblance to past tenon saws. They may in some instances be good enough for small furniture sized tenons. Depending on how many tenons you saw, you may be able to get away with using a carcass (larger coarser) DT saw from one of these manufacturers, which I do recommend.

So while I�ve totally contradicted my friend Bugbear, our disagreement is symantic rather than substantive. In fact I agree with his answer, just not his explanation.

While I�m unwilling to call this saw a tenon saw, I recommend buying the tool LN or Adria call a tenon saw and filing it x-cut. While this tool is ill suited to sawing out tenons, its useful for a whole host of common operations, especially accurate cross cuts and miters, and misc operations like raised panels, dado sides, and even defining stops for carving or scrolling.

Because there are no �true� tenon saws currently on the market, I am currently using a frame saw like Dean. There is no better choice available.

Adam

Re: Tenon Saw Question

L. Hanson

>I'm with Paul and Dean - a crosscut saw is more universal. However, if money's an issue - you could learn to sharpen them, then could have both by buying a couple old ones (or just one for one of the two purposes, and a LN for the other) for little money. Even expensive saws get dull...

Leif

NorseWoodsmith.com

Re: Disagree....sort of

joel

>I'm going to sort of disagree with you. - just on availabiity of the modern saws.

Adria for example offers a small open handled tenon saw in either rip or Xcut.

I would agree for deep tenons it's a little shallow.

but they also offer a closed handle 14" tenon saw with 4" worth of blade - also in rip and Xcut. (FWW is currently giving out a pair of these for a prize for best shop tip)

What I find is a good combination for me is the small tenon Xcut and the big 14" rip for precisely the reasons you state. (interestingly enough most people want saws that match.)

PAX also offers both 12" and 14" saws in xcut and rip.

joel

(Adria and PAX dealer)

Re: Tenon Saw Question

Jim in Burlington Ontario

>I'm lucky enough to have both LN's saw's and I'd get a rip one first. The rip saw still makes nice clean cross cuts. Plus you could use it as a nice dovetail saw.

Re: X-cutting with a L-N rip DT

Dave Mount

>I think the answer to the original question hinges significantly on what the predominate tasks for the saw are but. . .

I have the L-N rip DT and, basically because I'm too lazy to switch saws, usually do the cross cut on the outside of tail boards with the rip DT and it does a fine job. Maybe not as good as a saw filed for the job, but fully adequate nonetheless.

If cross cutting is the primary use for the saw, then maybe the calculus changes. . .I've never done the reverse (ripped with an L-N x-cut file).

You'll like either one, that I'm sure of.

Dave

Dave Mount, ne MN

Thanks All

Thomas Skaggs, Foothills of Mount Level

>Great responses as usual from my Neanderthal buddies. Thank you!

Tommy

Get the RIP Tommy!

HC Sakman

>

Re: Disagree....sort of

paul womack

>So while I�ve totally contradicted my friend Bugbear, our disagreement is symantic rather than substantive.

I think the disagreement is historical. I was advising on the uses on "small, backed, handsaws", you're referring to the history of something called a "tenon saw".

In any craft performed extensively by hand, there will be a dedicated tool for each sub-task; it's the only way to get more done, since you can't go down the "more power" route.

If the craft becomes less performed, or power tools are adopted, the specialised tools become part of history.

As an aside, in the 1908 Ellis book, large tenon cheeks are illustrated being cut with a large backless handsaw.

I'm not sure where that would fit in your chronology of tenon-cheek cutting technology.

BugBear

Re: Tenon Saw Question

philly

>Hi Thom

I've just recieved a Tenon saw from Spehar Toolworks-I had it cut for rip.

In use it cuts pretty cleanly on cross cuts,(as well as superb on the rip cuts!) so would recommend yoy go for the rip first. You might find you don't need the cross cut.

Hope this is of help,

Philly